Are these cheap lithiums ok to use??

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

"cheap" Lithium!! So it seams interesting to spend that sort of money on a cheap lithium to see if it works? to get anywhere near the lifetime cost of FLA this battery would have to last between 50 and 100yrs, are you planning to leave it to your children?
There are reasons to go lithium, particularly if you want very high discharge rates and charge rates in the 100's of amps or super light weight (ie racing) but it is, at this time, not a cost effective option for a 'normal' cruising boat so 'cheap' should not come into the equation.

cost difference not that big and at triple the life you have to take into account the additional costs of Fla maintenance replacement and the labor costs of said items.

[Rorzech]

[QUOTE=Scrimma;2838990]Hi all.

I bought my victron smart solar 100/50 from these guys, and they sent through some paperwork on their lithium batteries that peaked my interest due to price. I'm looking at throwing 400ah of LFP on my boat to replace the 520AH AGM i have currently.

I'm quite new to the LFP tech, so i thought i'd throw some screen shots of their advertised batteries on here and get some feedback to see if anyone has used them, heard of them, has concerns about them, has positive things to say about them and so forth.

As far as I know (which isn't much) , Lithium Ion have a serious fire hazzard. Lithium Phosphate doesn't have the fire risk. Just something I read a while back.

[Oceanride007]

His a Utube video of a fit out, must say I like the individual cells, as if one does go down, you can change it out. Has some costs and is professionally done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r22uNigQbvI&t=20s

[hellosailor]

When I see the big words "LITHIUM ION" in my small knowledge that is what we call "LiOn" and that is always cylindrical cells. Similarly, only the smaller cylindrical cells are ever rated in mAh, bigger prismatic cells are rated in Ah.

So a cynic might suspect that these batteries are arrays of possibly used, RFE, or second-quality 18650 cells and any confusion on the label is...intentional.

If the seller can't provide clear and fast technical answers, walk away.

[Dolphin460]

FYI

I friend of mine just sent me the following email and he loves his one season old Lithiums:

"We have 4-150 amp. HD series Lithiums. Amy is our China rep. really helpful. We bought thru Alibaba, with all the free guarantees regarding shipping & product quality. Let me know if you have any other questions. Take care, XXXX"

Polinovel LiFePO4 Battery: HD Series 12V Lifepo4 Battery

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by newhaul

ok these are calb cells and 10,000mAh is 100ah which is the capacity.

OK, am I having a complete brain fart here. Isn't 1000 mAh = 1Ah? Just as 1000 mV = 1V

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

OK, am I having a complete brain fart here. Isn't 1000 mAh = 1Ah? Just as 1000 mV = 1V

10,000 mAh = 10 ah
I hadn't had my morning coffee when I posted the calb specs .
I'm thinking that they missed a 0 when they listed the specs on Alibaba .

[ohgary]

I would pass on the lithium ion.. To much of a fire risk is not charged correctly. I would go with Lithium iron phosphate instead.

[Cheechako]

Sure, what kind of fire are you trying to light?

[wtmf]

i am using Sears deep cycle, maintenance free, marine batteries, in an offgrid , underground container and 4 years later no problems

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

When I see the big words "LITHIUM ION" in my small knowledge that is what we call "LiOn" and that is always cylindrical cells. Similarly, only the smaller cylindrical cells are ever rated in mAh, bigger prismatic cells are rated in Ah.

So a cynic might suspect that these batteries are arrays of possibly used, RFE, or second-quality 18650 cells and any confusion on the label is...intentional.

If the seller can't provide clear and fast technical answers, walk away.

18650 is a form factor, not a battery type. There are LiOn and LiFePO4 cells, as AA batteries can be zinc-coal, NiMh, NiCd etc.

There are large batteries built internally of parallel / serial connected 18650 cells, the main problem here is you need internal fuses that cut out a bad cell, but it leads to imbalances and slowly dying of the pack. There are also 12V batteries built from prismatic cells without paralleling, and all of those with or without an internal BMS, some are prepared for an external BMS, so you can combine them to whatever you want to.

The easiest and most versatile way is to use single cells and a BMS of your preference, so you do not buy a jack in the box. It is easier to fix occurring issues when having access to the components down to disabling the BMS and using the plain cells in an emergency on high seas wher you cannot call the customer service to fix the battery. Best configuration is to buy the cell size that maches your intended capacity and connect a series of those cells to meet your desired voltage.

for a 400Ah 12V pack, use 4 x 400Ah cells, for 700Ah, use 4 x 700Ah cells etc. Avoid serial / parallel configurations (except you built independent batteries for redundancy, but this is a complex and expensive approach). A regular BMS can manage easily serial cells, but cannot handle parallel cells individually.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by newhaul

ok these are calb cells and 10,000mAh is 100ah which is the capacity.

These are the individual cells to build a custom bank with .
So it takes 4 of them in series to be a 12.5 volt nom battery.

I have dealt with CALB for a number of years and unless something very recently changed the smallest LFP cell they made or sold, as individual cells, is 40Ah. 10,000mAh is not 100Ah it is 10Ah.

Lots and lots of counterfeit stuff being sold out there today. I had a guy contact me four weeks ago about balancing issues, telling me he bought some brand new SE400AHA cells, a cell which CALB has not made in years, so they can't be "brand new" genuine CALB. They had no CALB serial number stamping nor logo cap. They were out of balance by more than 18Ah per cell.... Such a good deal though....

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

I have dealt with CALB for a number of years and unless something very recently changed the smallest LFP cell they made or sold, as individual cells, is 40Ah. 10,000mAh is not 100Ah it is 10Ah.

Lots and lots of counterfeit stuff being sold out there today. I had a guy contact me four weeks ago about balancing issues, telling me he bought some brand new SE400AHA cells, a cell which CALB has not made in years, so they can't be "brand new" genuine CALB. They had no CALB serial number stamping nor logo cap. They were out of balance by more than 18Ah per cell.... Such a good deal though....

as I posted the sales listing was a misprint.
These were yes via Alibaba but direct from calb. I have not purchased any of them so haven't tested any .

[Scrimma]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

"cheap" Lithium!! So it seams interesting to spend that sort of money on a cheap lithium to see if it works? to get anywhere near the lifetime cost of FLA this battery would have to last between 50 and 100yrs, are you planning to leave it to your children?
There are reasons to go lithium, particularly if you want very high discharge rates and charge rates in the 100's of amps or super light weight (ie racing) but it is, at this time, not a cost effective option for a 'normal' cruising boat so 'cheap' should not come into the equation.

One of these cheap lithium is the same price as one of my 260ah Fullriver AGM house batteries, but with much more usable power. So effectively much cheaper than AGM in my case...

[Scrimma]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

When I see the big words "LITHIUM ION" in my small knowledge that is what we call "LiOn" and that is always cylindrical cells. Similarly, only the smaller cylindrical cells are ever rated in mAh, bigger prismatic cells are rated in Ah.

So a cynic might suspect that these batteries are arrays of possibly used, RFE, or second-quality 18650 cells and any confusion on the label is...intentional.

If the seller can't provide clear and fast technical answers, walk away.

I like where your head is at with this reply. I agree. I will be walking away. Sneaky sellers!!