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Old 09-10-2019, 09:06   #1
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Blue water?

I’ve looked on the amsa website and can find nothing about vessel classes, such as “blue water”, “coastal” etc. another thread highlighted the fact a NZ registered yacht can’t be taken out of NZ if it isn’t blue water capable. So my two questions are is there a definition for that in Australia, and if so what are the rules? Another one, how is a yacht defined for ocean voyages if there is that definition?
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Old 09-10-2019, 14:09   #2
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Re: Blue water?

Blue water/coastal etc are very much market speak. There is no agreed definition of the terms anywhere in the world.

Yachts worldwide are generally classified as Class A,B,C and D in accordance with European CE rules.

A Class A yacht ( boat ) is a vessel that is built to navigate the open ocean and surpass a force 8 on the Beaufort scale and surpass waves higher that 4 meters. These yachts are constructed to be self sufficient in hostile seas.

A Class B yacht ( boat ) is a vessel built to navigate on the offshore waters (200 miles and less) and can substain UP TO force 8 and waves UP TO 4 meters.

A Class C boat is a vessel built to navigate inshore such as lakes, rivers, bays and close to the shore and can sustain UP TO force 6 and waves UP TO 2 meters.

A Class D boat is built for protected or sheltered waters such as canals, rivers, small lakes and sustain a force 4 and waves UP TO .3 meters (less that 1 ft).

Many would say that Class A and B rated boats would be "bluewater" and Class C would be "coastal"
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Old 09-10-2019, 14:19   #3
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Re: Blue water?

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Originally Posted by Frank 101 View Post
I’ve looked on the amsa website and can find nothing about vessel classes, such as “blue water”, “coastal” etc. another thread highlighted the fact a NZ registered yacht can’t be taken out of NZ if it isn’t blue water capable. So my two questions are is there a definition for that in Australia, and if so what are the rules? Another one, how is a yacht defined for ocean voyages if there is that definition?
Blue water? I want a vessel capable of handling white water on the high seas so I can survive when SHTF.
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Old 09-10-2019, 14:43   #4
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Re: Blue water?

Sounds like you're going to have to buy a self-righting enclosed lifeboat. Rumor has it they're not much fun for cruising.
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Old 09-10-2019, 16:43   #5
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Re: Blue water?

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Sounds like you're going to have to buy a self-righting enclosed lifeboat. Rumor has it they're not much fun for cruising.


I can imagine that the whole inside of one of those things has to have a covering of vomit.
I guess your alive, but maybe wishing you were dead.
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Old 09-10-2019, 16:47   #6
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Re: Blue water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Blue water/coastal etc are very much market speak. There is no agreed definition of the terms anywhere in the world.

Yachts worldwide are generally classified as Class A,B,C and D in accordance with European CE rules.

A Class A yacht ( boat ) is a vessel that is built to navigate the open ocean and surpass a force 8 on the Beaufort scale and surpass waves higher that 4 meters. These yachts are constructed to be self sufficient in hostile seas.

A Class B yacht ( boat ) is a vessel built to navigate on the offshore waters (200 miles and less) and can substain UP TO force 8 and waves UP TO 4 meters.

A Class C boat is a vessel built to navigate inshore such as lakes, rivers, bays and close to the shore and can sustain UP TO force 6 and waves UP TO 2 meters.

A Class D boat is built for protected or sheltered waters such as canals, rivers, small lakes and sustain a force 4 and waves UP TO .3 meters (less that 1 ft).

Many would say that Class A and B rated boats would be "bluewater" and Class C would be "coastal"


Problem is it would seem that many class A rated boats aren’t up to the job, and has one wondering what testing or other means is used to determine they are in fact a class A boat.
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Old 09-10-2019, 19:21   #7
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Re: Blue water?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Problem is it would seem that many class A rated boats aren’t up to the job, and has one wondering what testing or other means is used to determine they are in fact a class A boat.
Which class A boats do you consider "not up to the job"? I'd reckon most are, as long as the skipper is capable, which is the primary requirement for any boat.

It's not about testing, it's about design and equipment.

I wouldn't consider a B rated boat to be considered "bluewater" (quote further up). I'd say you should start with an A if you want to do any kind of ocean or coastal work in anything other than fine conditions.
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Old 09-10-2019, 21:37   #8
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Re: Blue water?

Thanks for the replies.
Does the Aust Gov’t allow a class B or C yacht out of the country?
When purchasing a yacht how does a buyer know what class it is? Many sellers advertise their yachts as “blue water” or “coastal cruisers” but cant recall any that mention type A, B, C etc.
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Old 09-10-2019, 21:53   #9
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Re: Blue water?

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Thanks for the replies.
Does the Aust Gov’t allow a class B or C yacht out of the country?
When purchasing a yacht how does a buyer know what class it is? Many sellers advertise their yachts as “blue water” or “coastal cruisers” but cant recall any that mention type A, B, C etc.
AFAIK, Australia doesn't care too much at all what sort of boat leaves it's shores - at least it never used to. It does care about who is on board and the next port of call and it requires (for Australian citizens) the boat be on the Australian shipping register (or another national register). Again there is no "seaworthy" requirements for a recreational vessel when placing it on the Aust. register.

Perhaps if it was obviously and extremely unsafe, you might not get a clearance to depart but this is speculation on my part!

The few times I have departed Australia on small boats (sub 30'), no one batted an eyelid to the condition of the vessel or the equipment on board.

Maybe times have changed though!
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Old 09-10-2019, 22:08   #10
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Re: Blue water?

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The few times I have departed Australia on small boats (sub 30'), no one batted an eyelid to the condition of the vessel or the equipment on board.

Maybe times have changed though!

They hadn''t changed last year when we brought an old 30ft racer up from Cairns
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Old 09-10-2019, 22:11   #11
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Re: Blue water?

Nz is one of the few countries that restrict what you can do with a locally-registered boat. That’s because of all the countries where sailing is a thing, NZ is alone in that every trip to another country is a significant offshore sail in potentially troublesome waters.

In NZ, I’d be surprised if you’d be able to get a EC category B boat through the inspection. Even an A boat is going to need kitting out properly. No-one references this much because (a) the EC category is a European thing and not often considered down here, and (b) no-one in their right mind would attempt sailing in the Southern Ocean in anything other than a category A with proper equipment and experience.

From Australia you could just coast-hop up the east coast outside cyclone season and then pop over to PNG and up to Indonesia, so it doesn’t make sense to limit what people do.

NZ does this because it has an immense international search and rescue area (i think the third largest after US and Australia) and much more limited resources with which to patrol it. They used to insist on it for all boats leaving NZ, but it turned out that they were overstepping their authority and legal challenges forced them to limit it to only NZ-registered boats. i remember the furore about this when I was in the UK. But from overseas it’s easy to forget the situation down here, and as a result we spend millions assisting non-NZ-registered boats who get into trouble...
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:17   #12
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Re: Blue water?

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Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
Sounds like you're going to have to buy a self-righting enclosed lifeboat. Rumor has it they're not much fun for cruising.
They convert those dropin style life boats into live aboards in the UK. They ballast them with concrete or solid brick.



https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...boat+coversion
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:19   #13
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Re: Blue water?

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Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
Nz is one of the few countries that restrict what you can do with a locally-registered boat.
My understanding is that the "locally registered" part is the key and doesn't apply to foreign boat. I could be wrong and it doesn't apply to me anyway.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:59   #14
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Re: Blue water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
Nz is one of the few countries that restrict what you can do with a locally-registered boat. That’s because of all the countries where sailing is a thing, NZ is alone in that every trip to another country is a significant offshore sail in potentially troublesome waters.

In NZ, I’d be surprised if you’d be able to get a EC category B boat through the inspection. Even an A boat is going to need kitting out properly. No-one references this much because (a) the EC category is a European thing and not often considered down here, and (b) no-one in their right mind would attempt sailing in the Southern Ocean in anything other than a category A with proper equipment and experience.

From Australia you could just coast-hop up the east coast outside cyclone season and then pop over to PNG and up to Indonesia, so it doesn’t make sense to limit what people do.

NZ does this because it has an immense international search and rescue area (i think the third largest after US and Australia) and much more limited resources with which to patrol it. They used to insist on it for all boats leaving NZ, but it turned out that they were overstepping their authority and legal challenges forced them to limit it to only NZ-registered boats. i remember the furore about this when I was in the UK. But from overseas it’s easy to forget the situation down here, and as a result we spend millions assisting non-NZ-registered boats who get into trouble...
Thanks for this explanation, it makes good sense to me.
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