Caribbean to South Africa

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

I will keep researching and then make what I consider to be the safest choice.

If you go here..
Historical Hurricane Tracks

Click on location and select "ocean basin" , then below that select "west atlantic"

then click "refine search " and "time frame"

Then you can select, say, September and hold down control and select what years you want, hit "go" and it will display all the hurricane tracks for September in the years you selected.

Might be some useful research to do, looks like perhaps not the ideal time to be out and about in the north west Atlantic.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by conachair

If you go here..
Historical Hurricane Tracks

Click on location and select "ocean basin" , then below that select "west atlantic"

then click "refine search " and "time frame"

Then you can select, say, September and hold down control and select what years you want, hit "go" and it will display all the hurricane tracks for September in the years you selected.

Might be some useful research to do, looks like perhaps not the ideal time to be out and about in the north west Atlantic.

Thanks for that link. This is the sort of input I am always looking for. I will study it. Initial glance has about 7 Hurricanes in 2010 and 2011 that would have affected our route at that time of year (August/September). If I bring our timing into play, 1 in 2011 and 1 in 2010 would definitely have hit us along our route. Of course I am now going to switch on my crystal ball and switch to "hurricane mode off" for our timing this year lol

[boatman61]

Nice link... Thanks

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by holmek

(...) Cross the Equator as far East as you can manage so as to have a good slant across the S/E trades towards the coast of Brazil. (...)

Just do not get TOO far E as the zone is broadest there - good slant but more time in the zone.

There is plenty of seasonal variation, so chose the crossing longitude accordingly.

b.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Just do not get TOO far E as the zone is broadest there - good slant but more time in the zone.

There is plenty of seasonal variation, so chose the crossing longitude accordingly.

b.

Thanks for that advice, which I think is prudent. I had been wondering at how to see the width of each hurricane and at what point it is likely to be at its widest. I need to continue to examine that good link sent to me in a previous post.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Thanks for that advice, which I think is prudent. I had been wondering at how to see the width of each hurricane and at what point it is likely to be at its widest. I need to continue to examine that good link sent to me in a previous post.

@Bluewaters:

A) Where I say 'zone' I mean the ITCZ, a.k.a doldrums, a.k.a. monsoon trough, etc.

- There is a number of factors that one has to consider, possibly the major one being its seasonal width and location (wider E, following the Sun, with different witdth at different times of the solar year)).

- If you have shore wx support or rt wx awarness onboard, you can try to pickup the best spot at the time of your approach. But if you have none, you may elect to go for a statistical 'best shot' crossing point (see Pilot Charts and other similar sources).

B) As far as hurricanes are concerned:

- I feel that on this route you may get more exposed on the early leg to the Azores rather than on the leg from Cabo Verde to Brazilian coasts, plan accordingly,

- 'width' or range of hurricane winds around the hard core of a cyclonic circulation can be judged from the isobars on the weather chart or from any other source (grib files are commonly used); TDs and TSs in the CV area tend to be very small and localized with bad winds to extend mostly within 50 miles from the core. This circle grows and becomes asymmetrical as the systems start to drift W. This however is of little concern, as you are not going to be there.

So this is my two Euro cents of it and then you just dig into Google and find whatever data / know-how you find you are missing.

Time it well. Have fun. Enjoy the pit stops.

Cheers,
b.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

@Bluewaters:

A) Where I say 'zone' I mean the ITCZ, a.k.a doldrums, a.k.a. monsoon trough, etc.

- There is a number of factors that one has to consider, possibly the major one being its seasonal width and location (wider E, following the Sun, with different witdth at different times of the solar year)).

- If you have shore wx support or rt wx awarness onboard, you can try to pickup the best spot at the time of your approach. But if you have none, you may elect to go for a statistical 'best shot' crossing point (see Pilot Charts and other similar sources).

B) As far as hurricanes are concerned:

- I feel that on this route you may get more exposed on the early leg to the Azores rather than on the leg from Cabo Verde to Brazilian coasts, plan accordingly,

- 'width' or range of hurricane winds around the hard core of a cyclonic circulation can be judged from the isobars on the weather chart or from any other source (grib files are commonly used); TDs and TSs in the CV area tend to be very small and localized with bad winds to extend mostly within 50 miles from the core. This circle grows and becomes asymmetrical as the systems start to drift W. This however is of little concern, as you are not going to be there.

So this is my two Euro cents of it and then you just dig into Google and find whatever data / know-how you find you are missing.

Time it well. Have fun. Enjoy the pit stops.

Cheers,
b.

Thank you for that input. I definitely agree that the most vulnerable time is the leg across from St Martin to the Azores. I am studying every available bit of data I can find over the next 2 months. There is a lesser risk from the Azores to a bit South of Cape Verde. I just need to box clever and intend to have an Iridium sat system on board so will make sure I have accurate weather forecasts too. My other consideration is the area directly South of Cape Verde, ie: is there a risk of pirates from the West African coast and if so, how far is safe to keep away from that coast whilst watching out for the early hurricane formations that can occur there. My thoughts are that the more quickly I can cross that region in a North - South direction before turning Eastward the better for avoiding bad weather. Of course going too far South will mean that I have to beat a bit into the prevailing trades from Southern Africa across the port bow so I guess its a bit of a strategy dilemma but a nice one at that.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

(...)

A) There is a lesser risk from the Azores to a bit South of Cape Verde. I just need to box clever and intend to have an Iridium sat system on board so will make sure I have accurate weather forecasts too.

B) My other consideration is the area directly South of Cape Verde, ie: is there a risk of pirates from the West African coast and if so, how far is safe to keep away from that coast whilst watching out for the early hurricane formations that can occur there.

C) My thoughts are that the more quickly I can cross that region in a North - South direction before turning Eastward the better for avoiding bad weather.

I think your whole timing will stem from your departure time, that is (if you want to sail safe) late May / early June. Beyond Azores you can stop by and slow down to adjust timing at further points (provided you are not bound by some externally imposed schedules). I would neither rush nor delay Carib departure. Boats that rushed this year got into trouble. Boats that depart late may get smacked by an post-TS/TD/TC system - way more difficult to avoid than a hurricane.

@A: If you arrive in the Azores at prime time (say June) then the road onwards will lead you via Canary Island (pit stop) and on to Cabo Verde. Departing Azores with good wx you have next to nil chances of getting into any adverse wx. Onwards from Canary Islands you can limit TS/TD risks very much by sailing a very conservative 'direct' route to CV. You can also elect to slow down here and sail onwards only after the hurricane season (say in November).

@B: You are not likely to be where the pirates are. Look up piracy map - this is not where you are going. You will be sailing towards a point conveniently offset from (say) Recife. Beyond CV a TS/TD risk is next to nil and so you are free to pick your ITCZ crossing policy. With sat phone onboard you can ask a wx router onshore to monitor the ITCZ and advise you on the best corridor.

@C: Remember if you depart Canary Islands with good supply of diesel you may be able to just power across the ITCZ. If you depart with little diesel, you may be able to sail across the zone (that is if you are in a sailing boat: not all boats with masts and sails are sailing boats though).

@freetext: Mind that you may elect not to be in RSA too early - what I mean is that you will be sailing the last leg across some of Southern Ocean and wx out there may be way more demanding than elsewhere. So again, depending on your boat and your skills, it may be a good choice to be there when the wx is 'easiest' - during austral summer that is.

So, to sum up, Carib takeoff in late May/early June and RSA landfall in January may be a genaralised idea of how to sail this trip 'safest'.

Bueno. Okidoki. You have a year to get all read up and ready up. It will be a long trip and a huge adventure - you are lucky to have the time, the boat and the guts to do what some others can only dream of.

b.

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I think your whole timing will stem from your departure time, that is (if you want to sail safe) late May / early June. Beyond Azores you can stop by and slow down to adjust timing at further points (provided you are not bound by some externally imposed schedules). I would neither rush nor delay Carib departure. Boats that rushed this year got into trouble. Boats that depart late may get smacked by an post-TS/TD/TC system - way more difficult to avoid than a hurricane.

@A: If you arrive in the Azores at prime time (say June) then the road onwards will lead you via Canary Island (pit stop) and on to Cabo Verde. Departing Azores with good wx you have next to nil chances of getting into any adverse wx. Onwards from Canary Islands you can limit TS/TD risks very much by sailing a very conservative 'direct' route to CV. You can also elect to slow down here and sail onwards only after the hurricane season (say in November).

@B: You are not likely to be where the pirates are. Look up piracy map - this is not where you are going. You will be sailing towards a point conveniently offset from (say) Recife. Beyond CV a TS/TD risk is next to nil and so you are free to pick your ITCZ crossing policy. With sat phone onboard you can ask a wx router onshore to monitor the ITCZ and advise you on the best corridor.

@C: Remember if you depart Canary Islands with good supply of diesel you may be able to just power across the ITCZ. If you depart with little diesel, you may be able to sail across the zone (that is if you are in a sailing boat: not all boats with masts and sails are sailing boats though).

@freetext: Mind that you may elect not to be in RSA too early - what I mean is that you will be sailing the last leg across some of Southern Ocean and wx out there may be way more demanding than elsewhere. So again, depending on your boat and your skills, it may be a good choice to be there when the wx is 'easiest' - during austral summer that is.

So, to sum up, Carib takeoff in late May/early June and RSA landfall in January may be a genaralised idea of how to sail this trip 'safest'.

Bueno. Okidoki. You have a year to get all read up and ready up. It will be a long trip and a huge adventure - you are lucky to have the time, the boat and the guts to do what some others can only dream of.

b.

All taken on board thanks. My one constraint is to reach SA by mid December. I have already adjusted to leave St Martin for the Azores in August rather than September. I feel it wiser to head for the Azores, it is a shorter route than a curve towards the CV and it will get us further North to be out of the hurricane area. From Azores I am thinking Canaries then CV. From CV SSE to a point about 440-460nm off Recife and then heading SE towards a waypoint of appr 300-350 miles off Rio before running in to Rio direct. Any thoughts on that passage plan?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

All taken on board thanks. My one constraint is to reach SA by mid December. I have already adjusted to leave St Martin for the Azores in August rather than September. I feel it wiser to head for the Azores, it is a shorter route than a curve towards the CV and it will get us further North to be out of the hurricane area. From Azores I am thinking Canaries then CV. From CV SSE to a point about 440-460nm off Recife and then heading SE towards a waypoint of appr 300-350 miles off Rio before running in to Rio direct. Any thoughts on that passage plan?

Then, I think, it will serve you well to look up hurricane tracks for August. I, personally, would only sail St Martin to the Azores in late May / early June. Hard pressed, I might, with plenty of wx awarness onboard, sail in June, to arrive in the Azores late July / early August. Then again I am a coward and even worse: I got trained in meteorology, and even worse: some pay me for wx routing them. So to say, I am an extra careful person/sailor. Sail when it is safest and yet you may have an adventure ;-)

I think, other than a pro boat, with pro crew, the time to go is as expressed above.

I think you will have no problem reaching RSA by mid December, and being late at that end actually improves your chances of meeting fewer gales on the Southern Ocean side of the South Atlantic high.

The part from Brazilian coasts onwards I think you will take advice from other posters. I have not sailed this part yet (other than virtually) and none of my clients did. So I can only speak with some level of confidence about the Carib to the Azores / Canaries / CV / Brazil legs.

If you have such a possibility, think if you may sail her to the Azores when it is easiest/safest then lay her up and mind the business at home, then return early September to sail on.

The ocean respects no schedules but its own.

Cheers,
b.

[atoll]

how is the trip going?
you must be in the azores by now,or brazil?

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by atoll

how is the trip going?
you must be in the azores by now,or brazil?

Hi Atoll, In Grenada. Made the decision to abort because there are still some things we need to prepare before such a long trip. Unfortunately we won't get to spend Christmas with our family in SA but it was more important to make a prudent decision due to various factors beyond our control. I guess you could say that the road to hell got paved with another good intention lol. At least the predicted "highly active season" has not as yet shown itself.

Will make the crossing to the Azores and Med about May next year, then the crossing to Cape Verde, Brazil and SA to start around Oct/Nov 2014. For now we are in Prickly Bay waiting for our new Rocna 33 anchor that will replace our primary anchor that was stolen at an anchorage one night, nearly drifting us onto the rocks (fortunately we decided to double check our setting straight after supper).

Cheers.

Btw, where are you now?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Hi Atoll, In Grenada. Made the decision to abort because there are still some things we need to prepare before such a long trip. Unfortunately we won't get to spend Christmas with our family in SA but it was more important to make a prudent decision due to various factors beyond our control. I guess you could say that the road to hell got paved with another good intention lol. At least the predicted "highly active season" has not as yet shown itself.

Will make the crossing to the Azores and Med about May next year, then the crossing to Cape Verde, Brazil and SA to start around Oct/Nov 2014. For now we are in Prickly Bay waiting for our new Rocna 33 anchor that will replace our primary anchor that was stolen at an anchorage one night, nearly drifting us onto the rocks (fortunately we decided to double check our setting straight after supper).

Cheers.

Btw, where are you now?

sounds like you made the best decision!,better to sail in the right season!
im currently in the uk,but flying out to the azores soon for a delivery.
i was wondering if you had made it there......me being a free meal specialist!

[Bluewaters2812]

Originally Posted by atoll

sounds like you made the best decision!,better to sail in the right season!
im currently in the uk,but flying out to the azores soon for a delivery.
i was wondering if you had made it there......me being a free meal specialist!

Haha, we could have got together and had a liquid lunch lol. Rum squalls are great but once they are over the next day isn't

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Bluewaters2812

Haha, we could have got together and had a liquid lunch lol. Rum squalls are great but once they are over the next day isn't

i will just have to have one for you at "cafe sport"!,and bacalhau at the family run restarant around the corner..............sobbing