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Old 09-05-2018, 14:04   #16
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I thought all “modern” EPIRBs were water activated as well as manual.
Type 1 won’t automatically deploy, but Type 2 will when submerged below a set depth?
Auto or Manual EPIRB?

PLBs I don’t think will auto activate when placed in water, or float for that matter?
Nope.. Not at all.. Our EPIRB is only 2 years old and definately NOT water activated. Both have their place. You don't want a water activated EPIRB if you carry it in your ditch bag.

I know nothing about EPIRBS from the USA... So maybe they are all automatic activating... but manual activation EPIRBS are still the norm in other parts of the world. Even in Australia where an EPIRB is required on all boats.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:05   #17
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Nope.. Not at all.. Our EPIRB is only 2 years old and definately NOT water activated. Both have their place. You don't want a water activated EPIRB if you carry it in your ditch bag.

I know nothing about EPIRBS from the USA... So maybe they are all automatic activating... but manual activation EPIRBS are still the norm in other parts of the world. Even in Australia where an EPIRB is required on all boats.
You made myself question my statement (thank you !), so I started to dig a bit into the subject. The Info from different sources I've gathered so far is, that all modern (meaning 406 MHz opposed to the old 243 MHz ones) Epirbs provide both methods and can be activated automatically by contact with water. Cat I and Cat II have both a built-in deactivation sensor to prevent false alarms.

And then there is also the bracket which comes into play. Wikipedia states: "... For a marine EPIRB to begin transmitting a signal (or "activate") it first needs to come out of its bracket (or "deploy"). Deployment can happen either manually where someone must physically remove it from its bracket or automatically where water pressure will cause a hydrostatic release unit to separate the EPIRB from its bracket. If it does not come out of the bracket it will not activate. There is a magnet in the bracket which operates a reed safety switch in the EPIRB. This prevents accidental activation if the unit gets wet from rain or shipped seas. ..."

But, there is something else I would like to ask: how many of you have got a "hydrostatic release unit" or "HRU" - which is a pressure activated mechanism designed to automatically deploy when certain conditions are met - on their liferaft and/or Epirb? I'm asking this, because I didn't know about them, have never noticed them on a yacht, and only found out about it a year or so ago, when a fishing boat sank in port.

Fair winds
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:48   #18
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

Sorry, that was meant to mean: "Category I and Category II have both a built-in deactivation water sensor to prevent false alarms."

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Old 10-05-2018, 06:04   #19
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Nope.. Not at all.. Our EPIRB is only 2 years old and definately NOT water activated. Both have their place. You don't want a water activated EPIRB if you carry it in your ditch bag.

I know nothing about EPIRBS from the USA... So maybe they are all automatic activating... but manual activation EPIRBS are still the norm in other parts of the world. Even in Australia where an EPIRB is required on all boats.
So, back to your point, it seems you've got a Category II bracket for your Epirb which has to be removed manually from the Epirb to deploy it. There is no difference in the Epirb in itself between both Categories.

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Old 14-05-2018, 15:06   #20
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

Could someone please be so nice and explain to me why there is still nothing about it on the NAVTEX?

I am aware that NAVTEX only works with a distance to a station of max 250 Miles. Still, ships passing the possible area coming from places where they would have been able to receive the information, could be on the lookout - as was usual, normal and according to proper seamanship. Well, at least in the times before Facebook and Satellite Phones took over.
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Old 14-05-2018, 15:30   #21
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by Dody View Post
So, back to your point, it seems you've got a Category II bracket for your Epirb which has to be removed manually from the Epirb to deploy it. There is no difference in the Epirb in itself between both Categories.

Dody
Hmm I would argue that.. Simply pulling my EPIRB from the bracket does not deploy it (I was just holding it in my hands). There is a series of manual proceedures required to actually engage it for sending (including flipping a physical switch).. So no, its not just a bracket. If you think I'm full of it, you can look at the EPIRB here. Actually, the company that makes it, doesn't even make an automatic deployment EPIRB.
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AGAIN.. EPIRBs like this are common on many boats we encounter. Manual release, manual deployment are NOT a strange thing.
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Old 14-05-2018, 15:39   #22
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Hmm I would argue that.. Simply pulling my EPIRB from the bracket does not deploy it (I was just holding it in my hands). There is a series of manual proceedures required to actually engage it for sending (including flipping a physical switch).. So no, its not just a bracket. If you think I'm full of it, you can look at the EPIRB here. Actually, the company that makes it, doesn't even make an automatic deployment EPIRB.
SafetyAlert SA1G | kti

AGAIN.. EPIRBs like this are common on many boats we encounter. Manual release, manual deployment are NOT a strange thing.
Ditto, exactly the same for mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dody View Post
You made myself question my statement (thank you !), so I started to dig a bit into the subject. The Info from different sources I've gathered so far is, that all modern (meaning 406 MHz opposed to the old 243 MHz ones) Epirbs provide both methods and can be activated automatically by contact with water. Cat I and Cat II have both a built-in deactivation sensor to prevent false alarms.

And then there is also the bracket which comes into play. Wikipedia states: "... For a marine EPIRB to begin transmitting a signal (or "activate") it first needs to come out of its bracket (or "deploy"). Deployment can happen either manually where someone must physically remove it from its bracket or automatically where water pressure will cause a hydrostatic release unit to separate the EPIRB from its bracket. If it does not come out of the bracket it will not activate. There is a magnet in the bracket which operates a reed safety switch in the EPIRB. This prevents accidental activation if the unit gets wet from rain or shipped seas. ..."

But, there is something else I would like to ask: how many of you have got a "hydrostatic release unit" or "HRU" - which is a pressure activated mechanism designed to automatically deploy when certain conditions are met - on their liferaft and/or Epirb? I'm asking this, because I didn't know about them, have never noticed them on a yacht, and only found out about it a year or so ago, when a fishing boat sank in port.

Fair winds
Dody
Ah, another example where absolute faith in Wikipedia may be misplaced.
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Old 15-05-2018, 01:38   #23
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dody View Post

But, there is something else I would like to ask: how many of you have got a "hydrostatic release unit" or "HRU" - which is a pressure activated mechanism designed to automatically deploy when certain conditions are met - on their liferaft and/or Epirb? I'm asking this, because I didn't know about them, have never noticed them on a yacht, and only found out about it a year or so ago, when a fishing boat sank in port.

Fair winds
Dody
In Canada hydrostatic releases are compulsory for commercial vessels. Optional for recreational vessels.

ACR and McMurdo both make Epirbs with hydroststic releases.
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Old 15-05-2018, 02:27   #24
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

The EPIRB was not an automatic one so it seems they had time to deploy it but the fact that it only give a single signal indicates that or malfunctioned (weak battery) or it sank quickly with the boat.

The boat was a charter one, used on the med and on the caribbean. Most of the lost keels cases have been on Charter boats were groundings are many times not reported.

By far the best report on the accident is on Saily.it. It is in Italian but you can use a translator.

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Old 16-05-2018, 14:33   #25
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Re: Yacht "Bright" missing between Azores and Gibraltar.

Still missing.
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