Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-01-2020, 05:53   #91
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 8,792
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

I just wonder if we are all slowly beeing affected (infected) by the "Sound Bite" method of communication?.....?
........Short, Sharp and with an exaggeration for effect , so as to make your point.

I can see how that can be perceived as being rude.... and something we should consider, if feeling offended.

Unfortunately, polite formal English became one of the first fatalities when texts and tweets became popular.
__________________

Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 06:26   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Allied Princess 36 MKII
Posts: 218
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I just wonder if we are all slowly beeing affected (infected) by the "Sound Bite" method of communication?.....?
........Short, Sharp and with an exaggeration for effect , so as to make your point.

I can see how that can be perceived as being rude.... and something we should consider, if feeling offended.

Unfortunately, polite formal English became one of the first fatalities when texts and tweets became popular.
I believe that is a pretty fair summation! I remember reading an article a while back that 'concluded' that it was considered rude to use proper punctuation and sentence structure when communicating via text/messaging/etc..
Ideas like that just hurt my brain.
__________________

S/V Adeline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 06:56   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CHARLESTON, SC
Boat: Schucker 436
Posts: 90
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I don't really buy that mindset

Adult INDIVIDUALS are responsible for their own decisions and unless you are selling tickets, they have accepted to share the Risk

Kids are a grey area but that opens up a whole can of parenting worms if we tried to legislate cruising with kids

Search and Rescue signed up to save lives and knew what they were getting into. We honor them, we pay them and we thank them.....that's the deal same as military.
Pelagic...... Great post, and you are spot on. Search and Rescue personnel live to save people. I've never heard a fireman or Coast Guard personnel complain after a very tough rescue. They train daily to save lives, and when that call comes in to rescue someone, it's an adrenaline rush that's hard to understand. Rescuing is fun, but searching for a week is hell, especially when you don't find the people in time. I always chime in about EPIRBs, because it's the one thing that you can bet your life on every time, and takes the search out of the rescue. You could sink a boat if you had every piece of safety equipment available. I grew up in a commercial tuna fishing family in LA, and saw too many sad cases in the 50's and 60's, then 42 years in the USCG. I worked hard to get new electronic direction finders that could hone in on the 406 MHz signal in all of the USCG aircraft, and it ended up saving lots of people even faster. You can learn more about my project by searching : Greg johnson EPIRB.
RUSTYNAIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 07:40   #94
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Boat: 42ft Moody Ketch
Posts: 448
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
I believe that is a pretty fair summation! I remember reading an article a while back that 'concluded' that it was considered rude to use proper punctuation and sentence structure when communicating via text/messaging/etc..
Ideas like that just hurt my brain.
If reading my post before this one , this is a prime example of that attitude of in my Day it was this and nothing should change , there is no such thing as my way or the old ways or it was done that way , if you are not constantly changing with the times you will be left behind and be a grumpy old man
telling the world IN MY DAY we used punctuation,
I once met a wise yoga teacher in her sixties telling her class including me , that we should not live in the past but in the present and look to the future and we should not critique those coming behind us as it is their world and their generation and we should embrace it , not hinder it , there are those that want to deny new ideas and possibility and embracing the need for adventure , because they lack the will and skills themselves , but they should not stop others from pursuing their dreams .
tarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 07:54   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 12
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Ah, yet another attempt to block and discourage a modern day Slocum. If someone listed all Joshua's action to prepare for his sailboat trip, plans etc. around the world this forum would remind him to bring a body bag. In this age of auto pilot, gps, self adjusting sails, do you really think that anything more than a few days coastal experience is going to help someone? If anything it will only provide a false sense of security. Sailing in lake Lewisville Texas, is not sailing in San Francisco Bay, an sailing in San Francisco Bay is not sailing in the Pacific Ocean.
jayfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 08:06   #96
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Allied Princess 36 MKII
Posts: 218
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarian View Post
If reading my post before this one , this is a prime example of that attitude of in my Day it was this and nothing should change , there is no such thing as my way or the old ways or it was done that way , if you are not constantly changing with the times you will be left behind and be a grumpy old man
telling the world IN MY DAY we used punctuation,
I once met a wise yoga teacher in her sixties telling her class including me , that we should not live in the past but in the present and look to the future and we should not critique those coming behind us as it is their world and their generation and we should embrace it , not hinder it , there are those that want to deny new ideas and possibility and embracing the need for adventure , because they lack the will and skills themselves , but they should not stop others from pursuing their dreams .
I think that you are missing the point, I wasn't suggesting that you should do it any way, quite the contrary, suggesting that it is rude or arrogant to punctuate a sentence is exactly what you describe. Telling anyone they should avoid general punctuation and sentence structure because "that is the modern way" is the same as the old timer stating "in my day..."
S/V Adeline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 08:06   #97
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 26,153
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
The start of a New Year is always a time for introspection.... perhaps even more so if it's the start of a New Decade ?

The Zingaro event made me think years back to my first time on CF, when I commented on an at sea failure and the poor choices the skipper made.

Ironically it was also a voyage towards Hawaii by a newbie sailor who had a steering failure and was overcome by seasickness.
If I remember correctly, he eventually needed to be rescued.

CF members who knew him from his departure dock said that he was really unprepared, no experience, unsuitable, poorly maintained boat and they had warned him about taking this offshore journey, without gaining experience first.

Others supported his "Go for it" attitude which I criticised because the onboard steering problem was easily solvable, if he had done his homework, before departure.

My mariner's carreer experience and professional training took over.
Now I realize I was wrong!

Risk and Reward whether it be a financial risk, (Budget be Dammed) career or lifestyle risk , or sailing off on a minimal budget with little experience (unlike Zingaro) is really up to the individual

On a boat, it is their Risk and their Reward, and when something bad happens, should we not just say....ok, and advise the crew of what they might do next?

I was wrong then and other times to lecture about the past and should have instead helped them to move forward.

What say others?

I am not going to comment on the substance, but I will say that introspection and critical analysis of one's own thoughts and acts is the only path to any kind of wisdom. Unfortunately so lacking in so many people. Good on you.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 09:14   #98
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 7,238
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
...I fully agree there is no substitute for experience. I hope my post did not suggest otherwise. Myself, like many others, don't have that lifelong experience (I for one envy those who do)
I only have the funds to shoestring along and don't have the years ahead so it's either fast track or wait to die wishing I had at least tried. Since death is the end regardless might as well fight for the dream till the bitter end.
If I had listened to the naysayers, I would have never found a great '79 Princess 36, structurally sound, almost ready to cruise (boat + new engine + new transmission < $8k) just CAN'T find a decent boat on my budget....really?
She needs about a couple grand of improvements and we are gone. We have a steep learning curve ahead, she is 9ft longer than our previous sailboat (not including her bowsprit) and she will be the first sailing vessel we take 'offshore'.
We DO have an EPIRB,...and a fishing rod
See, good on you. Sounds like you also took the two-step process to finding THE boat, just like many of us. It's great you've found a good, solid and inexpensive boat. They are certainly out there, and many of us are cruising in "good old boats."

Some are born to sailing. Others, like me, and it sounds like you, come to it much later in life. Either way you get there, experience is necessary to being to learn some of our unknown-unknowns. This is why many of us recommend new folks start with an inexpensive cruising level boat. Cruise and learn. This will teach you what you really need and want in THE boat.

If you go back and look at some of the frugal "$500/month" threads, you'll see no lack of support for living this life inexpensively. It certainly can be done (although $500/month is more aspirational for most of us . I'm more like $1,200).
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2020, 08:00   #99
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dana Point, Ca.
Boat: olsen / ericson 34
Posts: 365
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

What I have observed on CF is good people dong their best to help others with their questions, or dreams and being out there on an ocean that does not love you.

Learned this saying from a Navy Seal..( The seven P's).

" Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. "

One of my own...... When operating in an alien enviornment learn as much as you
can from all aspects, whether it be flying airplanes, skippering boats, or Scuba Diving, hiking, sky diving, surfing, etc, etc.

skippers responsibility is to the safety of the vessel, the crew, the passengers, and self as well as others, and their vessels, and emergency personnel who may be requried to assist.

CF is a great forum, and continues to provide extremely helpful comments on a continual basis helping others to stay smart and stay safe.

Don't change..
Lihuedooley77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 08:31   #100
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 400
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

HereAndNow:
nothing in your post disqualifies you to just do it unless you try to identify the risks and to take steps to be prepaired for - as good as you can.

In fact when you go out you do not need to know how to work with sails. As long as you take your response you will learn it in light winds by try and error.

But what you should know is:
How to navigate
How to keep your boat afloat and going
How to work with weather predictions
How to apply the usual saftey precautions.


That' all.
moseriw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 09:23   #101
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: B27
Posts: 5,986
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77 View Post
What I have observed on CF is good people dong their best to help others with their questions, or dreams and being out there on an ocean that does not love you.

Learned this saying from a Navy Seal..( The seven P's).

" Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. "

One of my own...... When operating in an alien enviornment learn as much as you
can from all aspects, whether it be flying airplanes, skippering boats, or Scuba Diving, hiking, sky diving, surfing, etc, etc.

skippers responsibility is to the safety of the vessel, the crew, the passengers, and self as well as others, and their vessels, and emergency personnel who may be requried to assist.

CF is a great forum, and continues to provide extremely helpful comments on a continual basis helping others to stay smart and stay safe.

Don't change..
Yep, but a lot of times you still get the "Just Go" response from some members to those considering going cruising even if they don't know what proper planning is.....

I think you have to know before you can know. In other words a bit of experience really helps.

I had been on the water most of my life but a few days sailing and living on my old cruising boat when I first got it teaches you a lot with the bad anchorages, rough weather, no sleep, and seasickness. The winds and waves can get up here near the ocean pretty quickly and it's nothing for the weather man to be off on wind prediction by 15 knots sometimes. And a slight wind shift can bring in ocean waves on your "iffy" anchorages in some spots

There's nothing like being seasick and finally getting near your home creek with the boat on autopilot and then the jib refuses to furl. So you have to make multiple trips to the cabin for tools and then forward all in 18-20 knot winds while taking short breaks to blow chucks and dry heave over the side

All that being said it sure is nice to get through it and when you finally do get into that nice, protected, calm creek and the Sun is up and the temp comes up just a bit it can be pretty darn nice
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 09:36   #102
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Vagabond 47
Posts: 400
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Proper preservations are medications against seasickness TOO
moseriw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 09:50   #103
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: B27
Posts: 5,986
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moseriw View Post
Proper preservations are medications against seasickness TOO
Yeah, but you don't learn anything. (Btw I think I was 9 or 10 the first time I got seasick while fishing in the ocean)

I had never been on such a slow boat that the waves can actually decrease the motion of in my life until I got this old monohull in 2011

Plus on the downwind in big wind this Bristol 27 likes to roll, it seems to roll a bit, it rolls when sailing downwind, the rolling mostly occurs when sailing downwind. The downwind rolling doesn't stop just because you don't like it either. It just rolls, and rolls, and then it rolls some more.

I've watched the mast swing back and forth, back and forth while lying on a lazarette locker trying not to barf

On the downwind though in big wind, the mast just keeps swinging back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and the boat just rolls, and rolls, and rolls some more.......
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 10:53   #104
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 7,238
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yep, but a lot of times you still get the "Just Go" response from some members to those considering going cruising even if they don't know what proper planning is.....

I think you have to know before you can know. In other words a bit of experience really helps.
...
Agreed. This is why I, and many others, recommend that new folks start with an inexpensive, but fully functional cruising level boat. Use this boat to gain some actual cruising experience. This will begin to reveal the unknown-unknowns that each of us have.

I believe sailing is the easiest part of cruising. It's all the other stuff -- most of which can only be learned by actually doing -- that is hard(er).

So yes... just go. But learn to crawl before walking, and walking before sailing around the world .
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2020, 15:43   #105
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
Re: Risk & Reward.. I was Wrong!

I am late to reply, and this is my first timid entry into saying anything in this forum. I am completely inexperienced. I don't offer any advise, because I am not qualified to, but I am qualified as a newbie to say what it means and how it feels to get advise--even advise that sounds critical or tough. I don't HAVE to take your advise, but getting the perspective of people with combine hundreds of years of experience is...well.. INVALUABLE.

When I ask, and even if I don't, and get instructions, suggestions, advise from any of the sailors I consider significantly more experienced, I listen, and as I develop, it gives me more confidence not less. I can tell you I am a relatively timid person--I do dangerous things as safely as possible (that is my motto)--and take longer than most to learn these skills.

My advise to Pelagic is PLEASE! keep giving us advise; our lives may depend on it. And, yes, if you haven't notice, my log-in name is MY DREAM. You will see me again in these forums asking for your advise.
__________________

SeaGypsy267 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AC 34 - Sober Reflections - Risk vs Reward Chuteman General Sailing Forum 5 16-09-2013 13:22
Want To Buy: $500.00 !! REWARD !! For Catamaran Under $120k amphibious1 Classifieds Archive 106 20-09-2012 09:50
Challenge: Test (with Reward) ssanzone Challenges 10 16-10-2011 13:23
How Much ? Work vs Reward . . . TheScarab Boat Ownership & Making a Living 2 26-09-2011 07:46

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.