Lost rudder in the pacific, outside Marshall

[jimbunyard]

Did watching the video leave anyone else with an, if not bad, at least unpleasant taste in their mouths?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Did watching the video leave anyone else with an, if not bad, at least unpleasant taste in their mouths?

What kind of bad taste?

I only skimmed thru it, but they seemed calm and competent to me...vs so many of the high drama, low experience, YouTubers out there. However, I agree, a big oversight to have a major single point of failure with no plan B on a long crossing.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

What kind of bad taste?

I only skimmed thru it, but they seemed calm and competent to me...vs so many of the high drama, low experience, YouTubers out there...

Same here. They seemed like a good couple that work well together especially in a crisis.

On the other point, I imagine most boats that are cruising around and crossing oceans don't have any realistic back up plan in the even of a rudder failure.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Eder

My plan if rudder fails is to drag a small drogue or if lighter conditions just a longish warp. I haven't tried it yet but sounds good.

My plan is to own a boat that’s not likely to experience a failure. Both of our boats have full length skegs for protection and added strength.

The two people in the video had a good attitude and seem very resourceful, a job well-done getting their boat back to a safe harbor.

[B23iL23]

Please, please don't have us go down that road again. Can we keep this to when can/should be done vs the type of boat we should all sail.


cheers

Originally Posted by Kenomac

My plan is to own a boat that’s not likely to experience a failure. Both of our boats have full length skegs for protection and added strength.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Check 53 minutes in to the vid.....

Never mind the spare ... I'd be putting the money towards a new rudder with a solid stock.. that looks like thin wall tube filled with resin....

On a par with a Hunter rudder I came across on a beach once....

Yes! THAT part sure left a bad taste in my mouth. That one point, where the stock enters, takes all the strain and if there is any weakness there, whether due to a previous blow and bend that was bent back into place, or if it happened to have a structural weakness missed by inspection, or due to lousy initial construction, it will probably eventually make itself known. Clearly though, there are a lot of boats sailing around with spade rudders that are apparently doing fine... most likely with solid stocks...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Please, please don't have us go down that road again. Can we keep this to when can/should be done vs the type of boat we should all sail.


cheers

What YOU shudda done is not edit my post. And what THEY shudda done is have a contingency plan... which is what they had, and executed it well... which They did.

[B23iL23]

Sorry I didn't edit - just hit "quote"..


Anyway agree with you. They did well in the end but I still think better planning would have made it easier. 6 iterations of a jury rudder means they were running out of materials very quickly.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

What YOU shudda done is not edit my post. And what THEY shudda done is have a contingency plan... which is what they had, and executed it well... which They did.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Check 53 minutes in to the vid.....

Never mind the spare ... I'd be putting the money towards a new rudder with a solid stock.. that looks like thin wall tube filled with resin....

On a par with a Hunter rudder I came across on a beach once....

I didn't view the video. Did you see corrosion on the stock or are you saying it just looked under built? What likely caused the failure?

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I didn't view the video. Did you see corrosion on the stock or are you saying it just looked under built? What likely caused the failure?

Here are a couple of stills from the Hilma video.
It's interesting that similar pics from previous rudder shaft issues on the Jeanneau Owner's Forum are no longer there, yet the text remains.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by cyan

Here are a couple of stills from the Hilma video.
It's interesting that similar pics from previous rudder shaft issues on the Jeanneau Owner's Forum are no longer there, yet the text remains.

Cyan
Thanks for the stills. Looks like a really clean break. Do they know what they hit? Has the stub been analyzed? Could be some long standing crevice corrosion.

I'm surprised at the number of offshore boats that don't drop their rudders for inspection when they haul. I know its an added pain in the arse. Dropping exposes the shaft hidden areas, bearings, etc. You still can't see the inner framework, but you can tell if its waterlogged. We drop ours every couple of years.
This is important on spade rudders, but I think it applies to all rudders except perhaps transom hung. Some of the skeg hung and keel hung rudders I see have shoes and bronze bolts that look like they haven't been out for 30 years and would take a jackhammer to inspect.

[thinwater]

All you have to do is BEND a rudder or break steering gear, and you'll wish you had a plan. I began researching this after bending a rudder.


I'm a big fan of drogue steering for 4 reasons:
* It is safe even in crazy weather. A single person can rig it, in big waves, in a few minutes (with practice). You can install it in weather where working at the transom is impractical.

* It is easy to carry.
* It can often be rigged with stuff you have on board, but ONLY if you...
* Practice!! Since it is free, there is no rational excuse for not practicing drogue steering. First try it in ~ 10 knots, then move up to 20+.




I've tested many commercial drogues; I like the Galerider best for this purpose, but the Shark and Seabrake are also very good.


Once I sailed my trimaran 30 miles across the Chesapeake and back, with a set-up that took less than 5 minutes to rig:
* Spin sheets to make an adjustable bridle.
* Suspended main anchor under large fender. Boats with less beam (leverage) might require 2-3 fender/anchor combinations.


The anchor must be under the fender to settle it in the water to make drag.


No question, a commercial drogue would be better in rough weather, but don't let that stop you from testing out this important bit of seamanship. Steering failure may be the most common cause of abandonment.

[El Pinguino]

Looks seriously underbuilt to me.... in that last still it seems to be only two thumb widths wide.... so unless he has really big thumbs that stock is thin wall tube about 2 inches in diameter....

If I owned a boat that had known rudder issues I would be looking to get a new rudder built of heavier scantling... and with a solid stock.

( the class of boat that mine belongs to has known rig issues as built.... am I still sailing around thinking it won't happen to me? ... nope... )

Going by the commentary early in the vid I think it just fell off.....

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a well built spade... which is why 99.9% of big ships have them...

Did I mention I have seen two boats in the last year that had skegs parting company with the hull... does that mean skegs are bad? No it does not.....

[zippy]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Did watching the video leave anyone else with an, if not bad, at least unpleasant taste in their mouths?

What do you mean?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Looks seriously underbuilt to me.... in that last still it seems to be only two thumb widths wide.... so unless he has really big thumbs that stock is thin wall tube about 2 inches in diameter....

If I owned a boat that had known rudder issues I would be looking to get a new rudder built of heavier scantling... and with a solid stock.

( the class of boat that mine belongs to has known rig issues as built.... am I still sailing around thinking it won't happen to me? ... nope... )

Going by the commentary early in the vid I think it just fell off.....

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a well built spade... which is why 99.9% of big ships have them...

Did I mention I have seen two boats in the last year that had skegs parting company with the hull... does that mean skegs are bad? No it does not.....

The size of the stock does appear pretty small for a 45ft boat. Of course, it'd be a hell of a job building up the hull to except a larger diameter. Properly engineered I don't see any need to go solid stock. Mine is 90mm (3.5in) carbon fiber, not solid (but close) on a 44ft boat.

I've watched yard jobs beefing up skegs too. They aren't any panacea.