Four crew rescued from disabled sailboat off coast of Nova Scotia

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by kristjan

Maybe it is or isn’t prudent to chime in, but I know how assumptions can burn like wildfire and get out of control. I have been in touch with skipper as I know him personally. Their steering system had been destroyed, the rams for autopilot system broke, they had made repairs with equipment onboard but conditions overwhelmed the steering system repairs, the boat effectively disabled. A very experienced skipper on board doing the delivery. He definitely would not have called for help until exhausting all means to solve the problems and self-rescue while keeping crew safe, while at the same time having ample enough experience to know when to throw in the towel, I’m talking well excess of 3 or 400 000 nm of delivery experience. I met him a few years after I was doing deliveries full time and regard him as a mentor in the industry. I look forward to knowing and learning more when he is a little less busy!

So why did he decide to venture into the N Atlantic in Winter?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by RobinScurr

Interesting ... a British flagged S/V Makena, sized 15m x 3m, was on VesselFinder 29 days ago located near the Azores?

Conspicuous that the name and length match the news story ... 29 days crossing Atlantic? I'd like to hear the rest of the story!

15m x 3m seems a very narrow beam to length ratio.. the boat looks to be beamier than that in the pictures.
A Bene 473 is 4.31m beam

[calin1967]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

How often have you read an editorial recently and thought to yourself, "whoever wrote this must be really smart?"

Or maybe it's journalists who 'think' they are smart write editorials....when was the last time you read an editorial about a subject you happen to have some expertise in and and thought to yourself, "gee, whoever wrote this must be really smart?"

Me personally I read quite often smart editorials, but I select the sources... not mainstream ones. But I agree with you, the times when the journalists were the 4th power in the state are gone.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

15m x 3m seems a very narrow beam to length ratio.. the boat looks to be beamier than that in the pictures.
A Bene 473 is 4.31m beam

Lots of times the info regarding the boats on Vesselfinder is approximate, depending on who entered the info. Im sure you're right that the boat in the photo's is beamier than 3 meters.

[Polux]

There is a movie here: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/four-s...pter-1.4222210

The sea does not look that bad. They say (on the news) that the boat did not have steering but it seems to me that they don't know what they ares saying. They say also that the main sail is shredded a it is not the main sail but the genoa.

[boatman61]

No film really just the same photos.. wind is still whipping spray off the crests, however one must remember that it would have been quite a few hours after triggering the EIRB that the ships arrived so if the front followed its norm for up there that could have been a lull of a few hours as the wind shifted from its previous direction allowing seas to settle a bit before resuming from the new direction.
Love the part.. "When their sailboat stopped working"

[TrentePieds]

Kristjan:

Thank you for your post. I'm sure that a great number of us appreciate your sober comment after all those that smack of Schadenfreude :-)!

I would like to ask you to keep us posted, as far as you can within the bounds of propriety, on new "inside" information that may become available to you. I ask because, like others, I look at the pictures of the state of the seas and conclude that they don't seem overwhelming. I see in the pictures that the main seems to be properly stowed. I see that the headsl is torn and that it is a roller furling sail fully extended. The implication is that the boat was running before when the skipper gave up. These things don't come together in my head as constituting a desperate situation but for the fact that, if the assertion is correct, she'd lost steering.

In that regard there is talk of the "rams" on the hydraulic steering, specifically the autopilot, having malfunctioned. This raises a number of questions:

a) With four people aboard under command of a competent delivery skipper (we'll take your word for that), what was the reason that the rams were not disconnected and the boat steered manually? 240 NM out from Halifax inplies a downhill run of less than two days if the seas were manageable, which they appear to have been.

b) Is it the case that it wasn't the autopilot and it's rams that malfunctioned, but the actual rudder assembly that had jammed or had picked up something that prevented its operation? This boat is clearly a fin-keel, spade rudder job.

c) Had the headsl's roller furl malfunctioned so it was impossible to come down to an amount of canvas that wouldn't burry her head in the prevailing seas? A competent skipper would, I would think, have been under very short canvas in the prevailing conditions, and the properly furled mainsl would support that.

If you do have a chance to give us further insight into these things, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it greatly.

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

Boatie:

The "anchorman" (don't know who he is, Halifax is on the other side of the country) prolly wouldn't have a clue what an anchor is or does. His role, working for CTV, is simply to set up for fair Amanda and her journalistic sisters to fill the "dead air" twixt commercials :-)

What we here in this 'ere colony expect from CTV is what has come to be the standard of the "media" everywhere - institutionalized ignorance :-)

TP

[tarian]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Kristjan:

Thank you for your post. I'm sure that a great number of us appreciate your sober comment after all those that smack of Schadenfreude :-)!

I would like to ask you to keep us posted, as far as you can within the bounds of propriety, on new "inside" information that may become available to you. I ask because, like others, I look at the pictures of the state of the seas and conclude that they don't seem overwhelming. I see in the pictures that the main seems to be properly stowed. I see that the headsl is torn and that it is a roller furling sail fully extended. The implication is that the boat was running before when the skipper gave up. These things don't come together in my head as constituting a desperate situation but for the fact that, if the assertion is correct, she'd lost steering.

In that regard there is talk of the "rams" on the hydraulic steering, specifically the autopilot, having malfunctioned. This raises a number of questions:

a) With four people aboard under command of a competent delivery skipper (we'll take your word for that), what was the reason that the rams were not disconnected and the boat steered manually? 240 NM out from Halifax inplies a downhill run of less than two days if the seas were manageable, which they appear to have been.

b) Is it the case that it wasn't the autopilot and it's rams that malfunctioned, but the actual rudder assembly that had jammed or had picked up something that prevented its operation? This boat is clearly a fin-keel, spade rudder job.

c) Had the headsl's roller furl malfunctioned so it was impossible to come down to an amount of canvas that wouldn't burry her head in the prevailing seas? A competent skipper would, I would think, have been under very short canvas in the prevailing conditions, and the properly furled mainsl would support that.

If you do have a chance to give us further insight into these things, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it greatly.

TrentePieds

I see all the arm chair critics are onboard taking in an editoral and pictures and second hand information , and coming up with conclusions and critism,
1. why was he out there
2. nothing wrong with the boat
3. waves are not that bad
4. why so many coast guard ships and planes
5.. 300 people to rescue them
6. I mean so what that your genoa is gone and rudder is out and steering in those conditions are bad and there was disabled people on board, although no one know the severity of these disabilities

For my little piece I think you all should get a life and be thankful that we are alllowed to sail the oceans freely and make that decision based on the outcome we are in , no one of these forums were there its like you are reading Hello magazine, and if the Skipper alerted the emergency services then its is them that then coordinate the rescue and see fit to employ the relevant resources, not the Skipper . (he never asked for all those ships)
These crew are also professionals and it is their Job and they do it magnificently , they do not comment or moan and groan like people on these forums they do there job.
You were not there in potential a serious situation that could have escalated and made the call based on SAVING LIFES The emergency services would rather be called out and not give assistance to not going out and people dying.
the armchair sailors need to move on and get on with their own lifes and stop criticizing what they know nothing about.
I am also amazed about the amount of ideas that people sitting on a computer in a calm environment can come up with amazing solutions and telling how its is , without a pitching boat , screaming gale and broken equipment with an inexperienced crew .
I wonder who the fools really are

[TrentePieds]

Speaking of Amanda - not the one in Halifax, but the one in Haugesund in Norway - here is a lovely lilting tune accompanying a paean to a young woman whose profession is welcoming sailormen home from the sea.

"I've held in my arms, a number of charms,
but none were so round
and none were so soft
as those of Amanda, Amanda from fair Haugesund!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0K8_GmbOg

TP

[TrentePieds]

Tarian:

You are no doubt familiar with the old saw that "any fool can learn from his own mistakes. It takes a wise man to learn from the mistakes of others".

Please consider that speculating about what MAY have gone wrong in this case, and in all other incidents at sea, and about the possible reasons for it, is THE way to come to understand the complex subject of safety at sea.

We are not likely ever to have access to any report of any inquiry into this incident, so the onus is on us, including you, to learn what we can by other means.

TP

[Hardhead]

I'd say if the captain was an experienced delivery skipper - whatever his call was is to be given credit. He was there, we're simply looking at photos after the fact.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by tarian

I see all the arm chair critics are onboard taking in an editoral and pictures and second hand information , and coming up with conclusions and critism,
1. why was he out there
2. nothing wrong with the boat
3. waves are not that bad
4. why so many coast guard ships and planes
5.. 300 people to rescue them
6. I mean so what that your genoa is gone and rudder is out .....

For my little piece I think you all should get a life and be thankful that we are alllowed to sail the oceans freely

the armchair sailors need to move on and get on with their own lifes and stop criticizing what they know nothing about.

I wonder who the fools really are

You are on a cruising forum, where people like to discuss these types of topics.

Some of us here know that specific part of the North Atlantic very well, in all seasons, and have sailed there since 7 years of age. Nova Scotia is a stones toss from my home town. I'll be 60 in a few years.

Personally, I merely pointed out what appeared to be an iceberg in Photo 1. I also pointed out that it is interesting that the skipper's face was "blacked out" of the other news photo. Is hiding facial features the "PC" thing to do these days?

Thus, it's not criticism. It's observation combined with comments based on experience from right there - in that region of the world. My summer house is "Port Clyde, Maine", while my home town is 45N, a few steps up the road. Same state. Look it up, if you wish. This time of the year there = winter storage, usually. It gets cold. Anything else you'd like to know?

Now, let's get back to that news story posted on a cruising forum about some folks rescued in the N. Atlantic mid December ...

[Recy]

It looks like a Hanse 495.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DatxFNaRfBM

[tarian]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Tarian:

You are no doubt familiar with the old saw that "any fool can learn from his own mistakes. It takes a wise man to learn from the mistakes of others".

Please consider that speculating about what MAY have gone wrong in this case, and in all other incidents at sea, and about the possible reasons for it, is THE way to come to understand the complex subject of safety at sea.

We are not likely ever to have access to any report of any inquiry into this incident, so the onus is on us, including you, to learn what we can by other means.

TP

Not by speculating and gossiping , and your questions were not objective more like certain criticism , so please I would rather read a proper report than the gossip and moral high ground of people who were not there and are fantasizing of the outcome like a gabble of ducks escalating the drama.
As like most sports and activities each go about their tasks differently , there is no right or wrong. a female sailor was rescued in the southern Atlantic Ocean part of a race ,but because it was a race there is no criticism , but we land on this skipper like a bad rash with our tongues sloping out the gossip
It is like a crowed anchorage when a lone boat comes in, and out come the crews from other boats with their sundowners for the entertainment and the usual oh they should have done it that way , oh that anchor is to small etc.