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Old 26-12-2017, 16:07   #1
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floatsam/semi submerged debris?

The more I read the more I fear that my dream cruiser on autopilot would be hit in the middle of the night by some debris lurking semi submerged way out in the open ocean..

Is there more occurrences of such collisions given the increase of world population??

Any thoughts?
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:28   #2
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

Stop worrying, you won’t see it in the middle of the night anyway
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:31   #3
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pirate Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

Your just as likely to hit something even when your at the helm.. much debris is hard to spot in a sea even in daylight.
Been sailing a while and a few trans ocean passages, not hit anything yet that's caused any damage.. not even fouled any marker floats that so many seem to dread.. have fouled the prop with plastic sacks/sheets and cast away floating lines however.
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:31   #4
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

What about the jetsam?
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:36   #5
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

ferrailleur,
yes there are recorded cases of boats hitting submerged objects but when you consider the amount of vessels that ply the oceans of the world it is a very rare occurrence.
Consider this, early explorers did not even have a chart to navigate by yet they circumnavigated the world not knowing what to expect, including not knowing the weather. Now we have radar, AIS, electronic and paper charts, depth sounders, forward looking sonar and radio.
Sail prudently and get out there. Its never been safer.


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Old 26-12-2017, 16:40   #6
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

Vasco, here’s the answer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flot...,_and_derelict
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:42   #7
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Stop worrying, you won’t see it in the middle of the night anyway
Or in the middle of the day either, usually.

I don't think that any of us would be able to gauge the effect of the world population growth, but events such as the 2011 Japanese tsunami do cause noticeable increases in marine debris. During our 2012 and 2014 Hawaii races we definitely saw more floating debris than we had in previous passages. In 2012 we did ram a mostly-submerged timber, but it was a glancing blow and caused no damage. We heard and felt the "bang" and saw the timber go by underwater as we sailed past. Given the nature of most debris, the shape of a boat's bow, and the likely geometry of a collision, most impacts will be inconsequential.

And some will sink your boat, but these are quite rare.
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Old 26-12-2017, 16:42   #8
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

You adjust your routes/speed/timing based on where you are and what the dangers are. Areas in the Pacific North West have significant trees floating in the channels -- adjust your speed and travel only in daylight. Off the west coast of Central America there are areas where local fishermen in pangas are plentiful with longlines marked with a small, low black flag. Their night lighting consists of a lit cigarette when you are lucky -- stay further offshore at night.
Offshore there isn't much to run into, day or night. Although we did hit a completely unlit fishing boat on a pitch black night 35 miles off Cape Fear on the US East Coast -- even had the Radar on.
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Old 26-12-2017, 17:31   #9
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

Unless you're somewhere known for debris, like the PNW after the Japanese Tsunami, it's like worrying you're going to get mugged in Beverly Hills. It could happen, but very unlikely.
Travel slower at night - then the damage won't be as great.
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Old 26-12-2017, 18:27   #10
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

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Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Unless you're somewhere known for debris, like the PNW after the Japanese Tsunami, it's like worrying you're going to get mugged in Beverly Hills. It could happen, but very unlikely.
Travel slower at night - then the damage won't be as great.
Oh, I don't know... been in Beverly Hills lately?

we may sit at a bar and debate the damage to our boat going 6 or 7 knots IF we happen to get lined up just right on some very heavy and floating object, the only one for a hundred miles, and then we get into our cars and drive home on the highway and don't give it a second thought. Seems wiser to have it the other way around.
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Old 26-12-2017, 18:43   #11
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

I've hit 2 floating items in about 40000 + odd miles. Both trees/logs. One minor blow - just the very end of it, and one major impact. We were very lucky to escape major damage in the 2nd case, it stopped the boat from about 7 knots, striking the bow, then the base of the keel. There is crap out there, IMO you should consider this in your selection of a suitable vessel.
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Old 26-12-2017, 19:49   #12
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

I slow way down when cruising at night. That way, you reduce the impact if you do hit something. I do that because of the things I have boated by in the daytime.
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Old 26-12-2017, 20:43   #13
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

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I slow way down when cruising at night. That way, you reduce the impact if you do hit something. I do that because of the things I have boated by in the daytime.
But isn't that the interesting point? We talking about hitting unseen objects at night, but how often are we sailing along and notice something barely floating that passes by. We usually don't see a thing until it's abeam or in our wake. And then it's too late. If we were going to hit it, we would have already done so. Sure, sometimes there are large floating objects that we can see well ahead of us, giving us plenty of time to turn and avoid them (such as that floating section of dock we saw after the 2011 tsunami), but usually we aren't going to see them until it's too late.

A collision at night will be harder to deal with than one during the daytime, and there are those rare large visible objects, so I suppose that might be enough reason to slow down at night, but I prefer to maintain speed when I can get it -- day or night. I sail with a crew, so perhaps a shorthanded boat may have different priorities.

But I am talking about sailing in the open ocean. When we sail in the inland waters of the PNW (Salish Sea), especially during winter or after king tides, there are a scary number of floating logs and deadheads. If we sail at night we go very slowly, and day or night when appropriate have someone standing watch well forward where the visibility is good, so they can guide the helmsman around the hazards.
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Old 26-12-2017, 21:16   #14
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

It really, really, really depends on the boat. During the sail back to California after the 2014 Pacific Cup two boats--that I know of--hit submerged objects. Both owned by people I knew. The story of one was well publicized at the time. A Corsair 37 was damaged beyond repair, and abandoned.

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The other story was not picked up by the sailing press. A Dana 24 sailing as fast as a Dana 24 can go (5 knots?) came to a crashing stop after hitting what the singlehanded skipper described to me as a 6 foot diameter steel mooring buoy, barely awash. A Dana 24 bow shaped dent was left in the steel plate. The boat suffered some scratched paint, and finished her trip to San Francisco without incident. Quite likely she took at least 3 times as long as the Corsair was expected to take--but she arrived. In my most poetic moments, I can imagine they both hit the same object...

I am old fashioned. I like a boat with an uncored hull of solid fiberglass, (Aluminum or steel would be even better), with watertight bulkheads, a skeg hung rudder, and a long keel with more keel bolts than I can count with all my fingers and toes. Yes, I take a bit longer to get there. But I really don't much worry about encounters with either man-made or natural "stuff".
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Old 27-12-2017, 12:10   #15
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Re: floatsam/semi submerged debris?

IMO, it does not depend only on the boat: it also depends on where you are and what is floating there, partly submerged.

Once out in the open ocean, you may not see a hazard in the daytime, definitely not at night. It is outside your control. Don't let it bother you. Keep as good a watch as you reasonably can. And, if you're somewhere where there is a lot of debris (often due to flooding or to a king tide), nothing's wrong with Paul Elliott's idea. Question that part of you that says you have always to drive the boat as fast as you can make her go.

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