Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-08-2008, 15:38   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bodoe, Norway
Boat: 2 boats, 900 Viknes, 1055 RSA, going for Multihull soon
Posts: 58
Images: 3
Send a message via MSN to Erikte
Ohhh

Two questions i have not asked...

Is this boats CE approved (since I will in time take it to Norway)?

And how is the insulation (or not) for use in cold parts of the world (eg. Norway)?

Erik
__________________

__________________
The answer is out there !!!
Erikte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 18:04   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Longboat Key, FL
Boat: R&C, Leopard Catermaran, 47', Rapture
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikte View Post
Thanks for comments the more info the better

shawnbush12 sounds like a lovely boat, strong and good. What do you think of the size of the bathrooms/wc on the owner side compare to the double side. Is it so much better that one should look for a 3 cabin version??

\Erik
Depends if you like a private shower room or not. The owner side has its own shower stall, smaller than at home but similar. we also put the washer/dryer in the cabinet inside the shower which worked out great, I did not want my towels in there anyway.

The other heads use the sink spout that pulls out and you take a hand shower with the toilet. it works and I have done it on other boats, but the shower room is a nice touch when away for awhile for my kids.

you do lose a bedroom but the table in the salon slides down into a queen size bed and this is where my girls sleep since it is near the TV.

Typically the 3 cabin will not have been chartered so it should be in better shape and outfitted better but will cost more too.
__________________

__________________
shawnbush12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 18:08   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Longboat Key, FL
Boat: R&C, Leopard Catermaran, 47', Rapture
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikte View Post
Ohhh

Two questions i have not asked...

Is this boats CE approved (since I will in time take it to Norway)?

And how is the insulation (or not) for use in cold parts of the world (eg. Norway)?

Erik
it is built in South Africa so i would assume it is CE approved.

The AC holds pretty well, but i do not really know how insulated it is. The AC i have have a heat mode but cannot say i used it to date.

Bet Norway has great wind...
__________________
shawnbush12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 22:50   #19
Registered User
 
billgow's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron forsyth View Post
In relation to Robertson & Caine Leopards from personal experience have a good surveyor check for delaminating and osmosis due manufacturing deficiencies result of poor quality of workmanship that was not picked up or corrected during their quality verification process. I had extensive delaminating and osmosis in both hulls of a 45 that resulted in very costly corrective repairs.
I've heard this from members of the LeopardCat Group as well. They suggest you make an offer prior to phase out and have your own surveyor do your inspection. Most of the glass problems I heard about were around hardware fittings. I hear Moorings way of fixing these is with a new layer of gelcoat.

They also suggest mechanical equipment could be close to or at the end of their lives as well as sails and some of the rigging too.

What do you think of the polar charts here. Do you see performance like these indicate? Are you running any custom sails on your boat? I was wondering if a screecher, asymmetric spinnaker or gennaker make enough difference to add to the sail inventory.
__________________
billgow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 01:49   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: 45ft Leopard cat
Posts: 42
We bought our privately owned 2000 Leopard 45 in Ireland three years ago and have no complaints at all. She's probably among the last before the 47 was introduced, which got rid of her only problem: the tail sometimes gets submerged by her own wake when she's pushing along, and the additional couple of feet on the tail cured that. The minimal makeover with the 47 demonstrates just what a great boat Simonis originally designed - and several million sea miles on deliveries seems to confirm its integrity. Our example has done something like 40,000 sea miles without incident.
She's very solid, reliable and very comfortable. A very big rig, but my wife and I sail her easily, although she'd be a challenge without electric winches. She likes her wind over 15 knots, although we're using a big assymetric now to deal with the lighter stuff.
And she points higher than I thought she would, thanks to a very good sail plan.
I was initially worried about her seemingly low bridgedeck, but it hasn't been a particular problem *like most cats (and I mean MOST cats) she pounds when you take her straight into waves, but 15-20 degrees off and she's fine. I have a copy of an interview with Simonis in which he explains his philosophy on the hull design and lowish bridgedeck. It's very interesting and I'll post somewhere if anyone is interested.
There are advantages of boats built specifically for charter, too,like big engines and simple systems, the best gear and everything over-engineered. The Moorings had huge input into the way the 45 was laid out, and after all those years of chartering they knew what they wanted.
Because they're made for charter they're also easy to maintain and clean - they have to be if you want same-day turnaround! There's not much to dislike, frankly.
I look forward to the armchair sailors having a good chew now...

Big Macca
__________________
Big Macca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 02:39   #21
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Macca View Post
.
Quote:
I have a copy of an interview with Simonis in which he explains his philosophy on the hull design and lowish bridgedeck. It's very interesting and I'll post somewhere if anyone is interested.
I would love to read it! I think he is one of the better designers, who looks and learns, doesn't just stick with what he started out with.

Quote:
There are advantages of boats built specifically for charter, too,like big engines and simple systems, the best gear and everything over-engineered. The Moorings had huge input into the way the 45 was laid out, and after all those years of chartering they knew what they wanted.
Because they're made for charter they're also easy to maintain and clean - they have to be if you want same-day turnaround! There's not much to dislike, frankly.
I look forward to the armchair sailors having a good chew now...

Big Macca

From what I have seen, the size and quality of the winches etc. this holds true for the Leopards, whereas most of the French boats go a bit to the other side, and save money by using the minimal possible. But one can not generalise on this.

Great that you enjoy the boat and can reccomend it. I also agree with your comment on bridgedeck slamming, ALL cats will slam if the conditions are there, I think it has less to do with bridgedeck clearance and more to do with hull shape/buoyancy in the middle sections of the hulls. Some decent flare on the insides mitigates slamming IMO.

Cheers

Alan
__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 10:01   #22
Registered User
 
billgow's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
shawnbush12, Big Macca, cameron forsyth and anyone else who has sailed and/or owned these boats;

It appears to me, these boats like fairly high winds to get hem going. How do you deal with light winds in the 5 to 10K range (other than firing up the engines)? Have you tried screechers and asymmetric gennys? I'm a little concerned about this as I intend to use a 47 in the Sea of Cortez and that is a fairly calm area.

I'd like to hear from users what the performance is like on these boats. As far as layout and accommodations, I can see there isn't anything much else out there that is in the same league (for my needs).

I'd also like to hear about maintenance issues. Let's face it, none of would buy a used car from Avis or Hertz and they're only a couple years old. A Leopard could have been in the rental fleet for 2 or 3 times as long and their renters lived in them, not just drove them from the airport to a hotel.
__________________
billgow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 18:06   #23
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: 45ft Leopard cat
Posts: 42
Hi Billgow,

They do like a bit of wind, and we've usually used an engine below 10 knots to motorsail because we're usually in a hurry to get somewhere. She does move in 5-10 knots, but hardly quickly. We use an assymetric from time to time and it definitely helps - but nothing beats the iron sail below about 7-8 knots.

Maintenance issues haven't been a big issue with us, but the boat hasn't ever been chartered so we're hardly typical.

Hope this helps.

Big Macca
__________________
Big Macca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 19:01   #24
Registered User
 
SelkirkWind's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Boat: Leopard 46, The Selkirk Grace
Posts: 73
Leopard 46, AKA Moorings 4600

Your questions have gathered alot of great data here. IMHO, the boats have been getting better over time. I now own a 4600 and you may see her at the Annapolis boat show in October: United States Sailboat Show, Annapolis, Chesapeake Bay, Maryland The 4600 finally corrected a few deficiencies in the predecessors. The hull chines were increased to improve boat speed (the 4700 was not bad to begin with!), the helm was raised up under it's own hard bimini so that people in "the lounge" (out of respect to my monohull friends I will not say "cockpit") are out of the way for serious sailing. The traveler is on top of the lounge's hard bimini and the lounge itself now is huge with the removal of the sailing gear. I loved this because unlike the Lagoon's I learned on, I don't crack my head everytime I come out of the helm to head below (what is it with the French "short is beautiful thing?"). The next feature is the windlass and the trampoline. This boat has an undivided trampoline, because the anchor rode does not have to slide across the forebeam to exit the boat. In the 4600 it goes out directly from the anchor closet. Because the windlass is positioned directly at the base of the mast, you can use it to raise the main (NICE!). I am not sure that Moorings is correct when they say that all lines lead to the helm, as I noted the main and the spare halyard were not routable there. Another 4600 owner would have to comment as I have not tried it. The last meaningful improvement was the electrical system. It is all routed to a central (ACCESSIBLE) cabinet and the air conditioning and generator systems are all separate. If one AC goes down you don't loose the other 2 sections (divided into starboard hull, port hull and main deck). The reliability data will have to come as these boats have only been in service a year. They replaced the venerable and nice 4700.
__________________
SelkirkWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 19:31   #25
Registered User
 
SelkirkWind's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Boat: Leopard 46, The Selkirk Grace
Posts: 73
EC versus US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikte View Post
Ohhh

Two questions i have not asked...

Is this boats CE approved (since I will in time take it to Norway)?

And how is the insulation (or not) for use in cold parts of the world (eg. Norway)?

Erik
I knew I forgot something. Erik, the owner of each Moorings boat decides on the certification his boat will have. If you order one of these boats "new," you can decide. If you buy one from a previous owner, you will have to ask. Boats going the Caribbean usually are certified to the US coast guard standards and not the more extensive (value questionable) CE rating. The CE rating requires all hatches to face backwards and other things that might be perfect in Norway, but bad in the Caribbean. The fact that many Caribbean islands are not "US" controlled means nothing. If for example, you are an owner in Martinique, you want access to the US market so the USCG cert is the one you want. To the best of my knowledge it is difficult or more expensive to meet both specs. Somebody out there can tell you.Chip
__________________
SelkirkWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 21:27   #26
cruiser
 
BigCat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 765
Simonis speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Macca View Post
. I have a copy of an interview with Simonis in which he explains his philosophy on the hull design and lowish bridgedeck. It's very interesting and I'll post somewhere if anyone is interested. Big Macca
I'm always interested in hearing what yacht designers have to say. Please do post what you have!
__________________
BigCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2008, 21:32   #27
cruiser
 
BigCat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 765
USCG requirements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelkirkWind View Post
I knew I forgot something. Erik, the owner of each Moorings boat decides on the certification his boat will have. If you order one of these boats "new," you can decide. If you buy one from a previous owner, you will have to ask. Boats going the Caribbean usually are certified to the US coast guard standards and not the more extensive (value questionable) CE rating. The CE rating requires all hatches to face backwards and other things that might be perfect in Norway, but bad in the Caribbean. The fact that many Caribbean islands are not "US" controlled means nothing. If for example, you are an owner in Martinique, you want access to the US market so the USCG cert is the one you want. To the best of my knowledge it is difficult or more expensive to meet both specs. Somebody out there can tell you.Chip
The USCG doesn't have any requirements for yachts, beyond very bare bones ones concerning minor things like number and kind of fire extinguishers and life jackets. Maybe you mean ABYC? Those are voluntary. See: American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) - Welcome
__________________
BigCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 02:03   #28
Registered User
 
Adaero's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Devon UK,
Boat: Leopard 46 Cat "Tulliana"
Posts: 154
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelkirkWind View Post
I knew I forgot something. Erik, the owner of each Moorings boat decides on the certification his boat will have. If you order one of these boats "new," you can decide. If you buy one from a previous owner, you will have to ask. Boats going the Caribbean usually are certified to the US coast guard standards and not the more extensive (value questionable) CE rating. The CE rating requires all hatches to face backwards and other things that might be perfect in Norway, but bad in the Caribbean. The fact that many Caribbean islands are not "US" controlled means nothing. If for example, you are an owner in Martinique, you want access to the US market so the USCG cert is the one you want. To the best of my knowledge it is difficult or more expensive to meet both specs. Somebody out there can tell you.Chip
I don't remember actually being asked for the type of certification I wanted but my boat has a CE cert probably because I'm taking it to Europe.
On the issue of Halyards we have had all lines lead back to the helm, its a factory fit option if required.
I see from the Moorings website that the Simonis designed 43 has now been dropped from the product range and they are only offering the 40 and 46. This seems a shame to me as Simonis has had a very long relationship with R&C and helped them build some really great boats over the years. I personally think the move over M&M designed boats has been more of a commercial decision trying to give the brand more of a performance type tag obviously due to the "Playstation" link.
I will be at the R&C Cape Town factory in four weeks time, if you have any specific questions please PM me and I will try and get some answers while I'm there.
__________________
Regards
Adaero
www.tulliana.adaero.co.uk
Adaero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 04:55   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Longboat Key, FL
Boat: R&C, Leopard Catermaran, 47', Rapture
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Macca View Post
Hi Billgow,

They do like a bit of wind, and we've usually used an engine below 10 knots to motorsail because we're usually in a hurry to get somewhere. She does move in 5-10 knots, but hardly quickly. We use an assymetric from time to time and it definitely helps - but nothing beats the iron sail below about 7-8 knots.

Maintenance issues haven't been a big issue with us, but the boat hasn't ever been chartered so we're hardly typical.

Hope this helps.

Big Macca
I would agree with Big Mecca here. We have light winds in the summer in the Florida Gulf, until the daily storms kick in, and use asymmetric often with success.
__________________
shawnbush12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2008, 12:26   #30
Registered User
 
SelkirkWind's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Boat: Leopard 46, The Selkirk Grace
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The USCG doesn't have any requirements for yachts, beyond very bare bones ones concerning minor things like number and kind of fire extinguishers and life jackets. Maybe you mean ABYC? Those are voluntary. See: American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) - Welcome
This makes sense to me. I do know that you have to request the European certification though, as I have been through the experience recently.
Chip
__________________

__________________
SelkirkWind is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
leopard, ramp

« - | Leopard 46 V FP 48 »
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leopard 46: Leopard 46 Adaero Robertson & Caine 30 29-03-2016 17:10
Leopard 38: Leopard 38 redbreast Robertson & Caine 10 01-12-2012 07:29
Leopard 46: Leopard 46 V FP 48 Gludy Robertson & Caine 43 16-10-2011 11:04
Leopard 46 anyone??? Conrad30 Multihull Sailboats 15 07-03-2009 07:40
Leopard 40 marisol Multihull Sailboats 16 06-03-2006 19:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.