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Old 08-03-2012, 20:59   #16
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

We have owned an R&C 4600 since 2007. The layout is just terrific and we have greatly enjoyed sailing her. Recently we have found a problem with one of the bulkheads. The stern bulkhead starting having a serious loud grinding noise in the port aft cabin along with some substantial cracking of the gel coat at different stress points in the cockpit area. We are having her looked at later this month by a boat yard that has substantial catamaran experience. It's appears something gave within the bulkhead...possible delamination, but that is pure guess at this point. The boat has always flexed more than the 4700 we had experience with on charters in the BVI. They are lighter boats.

Has anyone else heard or experienced this problem with 4600's?
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Old 08-03-2012, 21:11   #17
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Hmm not that specific problem but similar issues. I think the boat is generally built well, but I can see areas that need to be looked at. Probably not a big problem if taken care of sooner rather than later. I think you can see the problems soon if you open your eyes and look. Try fixing it yourself. Will be good to learn.
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Old 08-03-2012, 22:12   #18
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We just bought a 2007 Leopard 43. So far we love the boat. We just completed a trip from Marsh Harbor to Cayman Islands and the boat preformed very well. Seems to make half the wind speed easily and with a little effort in tweaking the sails, even better.

We had some rough weather and I was amazed how good she holds course in 8-10 foot seas with the auto pilot. After a few days I was very comfortable with trusting the boat.

Not really any flexing to speak of and seems to be a very solid boat.

The 43 comes with very adequate sail area for the size and weight of the boat. Seems quick to accelerate in my experience, but my last boat was an overloaded Lagoon 380 that couldn't get out of it own way.

She motors well also with one engine doing 7-8 kts at around a gallon an hour.

There is some slamming with the low bridge deck but it is not bad and only in short choppy waves going up wind. Our lagoon was the same way.

We really love the forward cabins with the walk around beads. Lots of room all over and the best aft deck of any cat I have been on. Great for diving and access to the dingy.

Feel free to ask me any specific questions and I will do my best to answer.

CJ
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:58   #19
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Originally Posted by Camp Director G View Post
To what issues are you referring?
Have friends who bought an R&C out of Moorings charter. The primary issue they encountered was compression of the deck area under the mast. This was repaired at the expense of the Moorings/owner.

They encountered a host of issues with the boat, but mostly due to wear an tear during charter. If you buy a boat from charter, or put one in charter, remember that it is not the chartering of the boat per se that creates so much wear and tear, but it is typically the poor maintenance by the charter company that does the most damage -- after all -- it is not their boat.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:28   #20
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Originally Posted by capcook View Post
Hi CRM.... do you experience much slapping on the L46? Great boat, congratulations !!
In the worst weather that we have seen (6m/20ft) we had plenty of room to run and elected to do so, giving us a comfortable, rocking horse ride with the autopilot doing all of the steering. Only one wave tried to climb up the stern steps. During this, we experienced only minor slapping. If we had turned onto a beat, I'm sure that it would have been a far different story, but since we did not do that I can not comment.

In normal bay and coastal sailing, we do not experience any noteworthy slapping.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:44   #21
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Ok I bought a new Leopard 46 and here is what I think.

1) Has an amazing layout. I don't think there is anything nicer layout wise in a cat of this size.

2) The Hull is rock solid and has ample bridge deck clearance. Only once in a while would I ever hear slamming due to a big wave.

3) Gelcoat has issues with cracks. Not huge but I had maybe 10-15 areas all small most fixed but where the cracks are on the nonskid it's pretty hard to fix.

4) Quality of fitting so so. All the faucets needed replacing after two years. Hinges and latches as cheap as they get, but those are easy to change over as well. Interior woodwork is alright.

5) Sails reasonably well. We averaged 170nm a day. Usually sailing around the 8-9 knot range. Not a fast boat as it weighs about 16-18 tons. The quoted weight of 12 lightship is way off. Not that that is a big problem.

6) It would be an ideal boat to live on and would do you good for a long time.

7) I would never buy new again as when I got it many things didn't work and was a used boat anyways coming from SA.

8) Customer service was the worst I have ever experienced in any purchase in my life. Almost Zero support. So Buy used and you will save a lot then anything that needs fixing you can take care of it yourself instead of waiting months to only get no help or 1/10th of the help that you should have gotten.

Mike
Our experience with the L46 has been nearly identical to Mike's. However, in our case I'm glad we bought new rather than used; the issues we have been dealing with have been relatively minor compared to fixing the average wear and tear of 5 years of charter service.

We, too, have been frustrated with warranty support on some issues. Derrick Graham seems to be trying hard to do what is right for us, but I get the feeling that he does not get a lot of cooperation from others in the company. R&C quality-related issues are being resolved, but not speedily. Most of the equipment and hardware vendors have been very good about addressing warranty claims with the exception of Force 10.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:45   #22
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Have friends who bought an R&C out of Moorings charter. The primary issue they encountered was compression of the deck area under the mast. This was repaired at the expense of the Moorings/owner.

They encountered a host of issues with the boat, but mostly due to wear an tear during charter. If you buy a boat from charter, or put one in charter, remember that it is not the chartering of the boat per se that creates so much wear and tear, but it is typically the poor maintenance by the charter company that does the most damage -- after all -- it is not their boat.
Hi BelizeSailor,

If you wouldn't mind, I would love to talk to your friends about their experience as I am considering an R&C out of Moorings charter as well. If they have a CF account, would you mind connecting us? Please send me a private message if you don't mind. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:07   #23
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Have charted both the Moorings 47 sail cat and Moorings 474 Power Cat.
Moorings 47 sail cat sailed well but felt heavy. Motored well on one engine.
Nice layout with plenty of room seemed to be built well to take a beating.

I actually like the Moorings 474 Power Cat better. Motored great on one engine and would take BIG sea with not problem. Nice and dry at the helm station.
Motoring on one engine we did 7.5 to 9 knots at 2000 rpm depending on sea state.
Only used 46.6 gallons of fuel for our 10 day 100 mile cruise with 8 people aboard and 320 gallons of water, 320 gallon of fuel.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:09   #24
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

We chartered a 42 a while back. It sailed fine and we had a great time. We never had anything close to challenging so really didn't experience any pounding. I think they are a bit nicer than the Lagoons in fitout but just a bit. I like the helms. We never saw any cracks and the boat performed flawlessly. FWIW most of the SA cats are fairly beamy so you get more room and you immediately notice that extra couple of feet.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:34   #25
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB III View Post
We have owned an R&C 4600 since 2007. The layout is just terrific and we have greatly enjoyed sailing her. Recently we have found a problem with one of the bulkheads. The stern bulkhead starting having a serious loud grinding noise in the port aft cabin along with some substantial cracking of the gel coat at different stress points in the cockpit area. We are having her looked at later this month by a boat yard that has substantial catamaran experience. It's appears something gave within the bulkhead...possible delamination, but that is pure guess at this point. The boat has always flexed more than the 4700 we had experience with on charters in the BVI. They are lighter boats.

Has anyone else heard or experienced this problem with 4600's?

Interesting - and somewhat worrying - have you been doing a lot of heavy weather sailing on starboard tack?

Are you saying that the bulkhead itself has collapsed and not its fixing onto the hull and deck moulding that has detached?

Seems the R&C 46 M4600 is a quite flexible boat probably not as bad as the Bigger L55 and L57 where if you tighten the rigging 'too tight' you cant open any doors that were closed or close any doors that were open when you made the rigging adjustments.

But back to the R&C cats the Leopard 47 at 22,400lbs is actually lighter than the Leopard 46 at 24,200lbs dry weights of course.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:38   #26
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Have charted both the Moorings 47 sail cat and Moorings 474 Power Cat.
Moorings 47 sail cat sailed well but felt heavy. Motored well on one engine.
Nice layout with plenty of room seemed to be built well to take a beating.

I actually like the Moorings 474 Power Cat better. Motored great on one engine and would take BIG sea with not problem. Nice and dry at the helm station.
Motoring on one engine we did 7.5 to 9 knots at 2000 rpm depending on sea state.
Only used 46.6 gallons of fuel for out 10 day 100 mile cruise with 8 people aboard and 320 gallons of water, 320 gallon of fuel.

Nice i really like the 474PC if you cant go to windward properly i think the 474PC is a winner and very appealing to me for a BIG LOOP Cruise and wandering round the Caribbean.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:54   #27
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

Just to add to the comments..

My wife and I are planning on buying a Leopard Cat in the future - model to be determined, since we are unsure of exactly when we will buy and there likely may be some model changes by then. I'm hoping 3-5 years max.

In the meantime, we have been chartering a lot in the past few years and in 6 charters have been on 6 Leopard Cats with Moorings/Sunsail. 1 x 47, 3 x 46's and 2 x 38's. We really love the layouts of their boats (although the 47 doesn't compare to the newer models). Both the 46 and 38 would suit us just fine, and originally my wife was thinking the 46 would be too much boat for us, but after our last charter, she's changed her mind. I know we'd want to add a washer/dryer, water maker and tank compressor for diving to the boat so I think the larger size is really what we'd need anyway.

I think we will likely buy new, if for no other reason than it will be much easier to get an owners version that way and the charter versions do take a good beating - They are still a good buy in many cases as long as the survey comes back ok, but there are not many (if any) owners versions. In another 5 years there will be though with the new 39's.

Some of the things I really like about it that I didn't like as much in other models was the layout in general, the helm - its higher up than many and I think well protected with the hard top and ability to enclose it - haven't been in any serious weather, but in the few heavy showers we've hit while chartering, we were able to stay comfortable at the helm once we zipped everything up.

I also really expected to see other boats get our attention in annapolis, but I just didn't. There were some things I liked, but overall, I didn't like enough to make me consider them.
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Old 09-03-2012, 13:08   #28
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Just to add to the comments..

My wife and I are planning on buying a Leopard Cat in the future - model to be determined, since we are unsure of exactly when we will buy and there likely may be some model changes by then. I'm hoping 3-5 years max.

In the meantime, we have been chartering a lot in the past few years and in 6 charters have been on 6 Leopard Cats with Moorings/Sunsail. 1 x 47, 3 x 46's and 2 x 38's. We really love the layouts of their boats (although the 47 doesn't compare to the newer models). Both the 46 and 38 would suit us just fine, and originally my wife was thinking the 46 would be too much boat for us, but after our last charter, she's changed her mind. I know we'd want to add a washer/dryer, water maker and tank compressor for diving to the boat so I think the larger size is really what we'd need anyway.

I think we will likely buy new, if for no other reason than it will be much easier to get an owners version that way and the charter versions do take a good beating - They are still a good buy in many cases as long as the survey comes back ok, but there are not many (if any) owners versions. In another 5 years there will be though with the new 39's.

Some of the things I really like about it that I didn't like as much in other models was the layout in general, the helm - its higher up than many and I think well protected with the hard top and ability to enclose it - haven't been in any serious weather, but in the few heavy showers we've hit while chartering, we were able to stay comfortable at the helm once we zipped everything up.

I also really expected to see other boats get our attention in annapolis, but I just didn't. There were some things I liked, but overall, I didn't like enough to make me consider them.

The Admiral loves the R&C 46 M4600 mostly because she can see where she is going the only other cat she would let me buy is a Atlantic 48 BUT that would be a BIG step financially I may look at a D/D 470 and 550 get some build costs and see what she thinks. This would be very obviously OUR BOAT and probably built in Trinidad where wooden boat building is still a local skill - just thoughts ATM of course

Dix 470 Plywood Cruising catamaran

DH 550 Plywood Cruising catamaran
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Old 09-03-2012, 16:05   #29
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Interesting - and somewhat worrying - have you been doing a lot of heavy weather sailing on starboard tack?

Are you saying that the bulkhead itself has collapsed and not its fixing onto the hull and deck moulding that has detached?

Seems the R&C 46 M4600 is a quite flexible boat probably not as bad as the Bigger L55 and L57 where if you tighten the rigging 'too tight' you cant open any doors that were closed or close any doors that were open when you made the rigging adjustments.

But back to the R&C cats the Leopard 47 at 22,400lbs is actually lighter than the Leopard 46 at 24,200lbs dry weights of course.
Leopard 46 24,200 light? More like 40,000 pounds. We weighed it with out water about 300 L of fuel. Had a generator and came in at a whopping 18 tons!
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Old 09-03-2012, 18:32   #30
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Re: Leopard Sail Cat Owners: Please share your experiences and opinions

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Hi BelizeSailor,

If you wouldn't mind, I would love to talk to your friends about their experience as I am considering an R&C out of Moorings charter as well. If they have a CF account, would you mind connecting us? Please send me a private message if you don't mind. Thanks in advance for your help.
Don't know whether they have a CF account or not, but I will PM you their web site.
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