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Old 14-03-2013, 06:45   #46
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

They have been in business for about 25 years I think and done about 300 boats (I think) so I would reckon they are a production boat builder. They certainly aren't a custom builder. And whilst I have no empirical evidence, I suspect that those 250/300 boats have collectively done more circumnavigations than most other manufacturers.

Be that as it may, there is always someone with a lighter faster boat! And I think that lightness is something to be aspired to, not the be all and end all in a cruising boat, but if you can keep it lighter, everything will work better.

(in case you havent guessed I really like the Outremers, the company philosophy and the simple focussed approach definitely a boat on my "would keep it if you gave it to me list". )
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Old 14-03-2013, 07:05   #47
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

funny thing is all those bilge pumps and wires can let a lot of water in as electric pumps have so check valves and the wiring has to pass thru all the bulkheads. I plan to use buckets.
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Old 14-03-2013, 07:06   #48
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

I would also love to own and Outremer or a Gunboat for that matter.

These boats are just a dream for most cruisers today
They are light, fast and well built, but more importantly expensive and out of the majority of cruisers budgets.

It’s nice to dream, but in the end you buy a boat you can afford to sail now.
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Old 14-03-2013, 07:14   #49
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
I would also love to own and Outremer or a Gunboat for that matter.

These boats are just a dream for most cruisers today
They are light, fast and well built, but more importantly expensive and out of the majority of cruisers budgets.

Its nice to dream, but in the end you buy a boat you can afford to sail now.
There are many cruisers in Outremers... there are different types of cruisers and those who sell everything they own on land have a bigger budget to spend on their new home on the water than those who keep one or two houses , a couple of cars etc. ashore

And what is expensive? Look at all those Oysters moving about...
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Old 14-03-2013, 07:18   #50
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Originally Posted by Cotemar
I would also love to own and Outremer or a Gunboat for that matter.

These boats are just a dream for most cruisers today
They are light, fast and well built, but more importantly expensive and out of the majority of cruisers budgets.

It’s nice to dream, but in the end you buy a boat you can afford to sail now.
Plenty of Outremers cruising but I have not seen a single Gunboat. Used Outremers were under $300k a few years ago. Not sure now.
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Old 14-03-2013, 08:09   #51
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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Plenty of Outremers cruising but I have not seen a single Gunboat. Used Outremers were under $300k a few years ago. Not sure now.
I see Gunboats everywhere I go. Usually they are in the 60 foot range with what appears to be an experienced crew with tighty whites on. They anchor with me in Newport Rhode Island all the time.
The cheapest ones are still over 1 million usd.
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Old 14-03-2013, 08:17   #52
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I see Gunboats everywhere I go. ........an experienced crew with tighty whites on..
Does that sound like your typical cruiser?

Never seen a Gunboat, ever. There are 2 Outremers about 500 m away with families and kids on board that came across the Atlantic and Pacific. Their clothes are old, no paid crew, the kids go barefeet but have big smiles and speak 3 languages each.

I think you and I hang out in different areas, hey?

The Outremer is a high performance production cat.
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Old 14-03-2013, 08:33   #53
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

I am with you. It’s just your perception of a production boat is different from most.
Although, Outremer building 300 catamarans in 25 years is quite impressive.

Lagoon, Leopard and Fountaine Pajot Build hundreds of catamarans every year.
Each of these builders have built thousands of catamarans
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Old 14-03-2013, 08:34   #54
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

Nice quality layup there...
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Old 14-03-2013, 09:07   #55
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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Nice quality layup there...
Most cats would look like that if they dragged on rocks for hours while being lifted up on a surf and slammed back down every 30 seconds
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Old 14-03-2013, 09:25   #56
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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Regarding holes in boats, standard bilge pumps are intended to remove water from bilges that has arrived from "normal" use and not as an emergency response to a hole in the hull!
David, I disagree with this. The bilge pumps should be capable of handling a broken through hull or hose. As far as a hull breach, IMO it is either cracked, fractured, slightly puntured, OR totally holed which no pump or blocking is going to handle.

You are right about the water tight bulkheads, that really is the only line of defense if totally holed and out to sea.
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Old 14-03-2013, 12:29   #57
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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David, I disagree with this. The bilge pumps should be capable of handling a broken through hull or hose. As far as a hull breach, IMO it is either cracked, fractured, slightly puntured, OR totally holed which no pump or blocking is going to handle.

You are right about the water tight bulkheads, that really is the only line of defense if totally holed and out to sea.
Well, I'm with DOJ on this one. While a bilge pump might cope with a leaking valve or fitting, it won't do for a complete failure of one.

Pumps that are meant to copy with holes in the hull are called "crash pumps" and some boats have these; ours is engine mounted and 16,000 gph with an impeller as large as a man's hand and 2.25" plumbing. We have a second one that some might call crashpump which is a Rule 8000 (but the 8,000 gph claim is without hose attached....) which has 3" plumbing. All big pipes and fire engine hoses.
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Old 14-03-2013, 12:57   #58
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

Any decent offshore multihull should have positive buoyancy when flooded. no need for the fire hoses.
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Old 14-03-2013, 13:10   #59
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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Well, I'm with DOJ on this one. While a bilge pump might cope with a leaking valve or fitting, it won't do for a complete failure of one.
Actually I only half agree with DOJ ........I will stick by my contention that the standard bilge pumps are never intended to cope with a complete failure of a skin fitting - but nonetheless they would play an important role in buying time (sinking / flooding more slowly!)......the good things(??!!) about a failed skin fitting is that likely to have a chance of accessing and the hole could well be easily plugged (just add......a plug ....or simply close the valve ) - no guarantee of course, possible that half a fitting breaks off or the failure creates a non round hole in the hull ........in the absence of the sound / feel of a collision my first step upon discovering water would be to check the thru hulls.....and hope it was one of those (and ideally only a hose!), rather than the keel having fallen off!

........if the bilge pump does start working unexpectedly, especially if intermitently, also an idea to check whether it is green sea being forced down the anchor pipe and into the bilge.......
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Old 14-03-2013, 14:02   #60
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Re: Leopard 46 sinks after collision

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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it's very sobering. A table of the flooding rate per hole diameter, by depth below waterline.

It comes in faster than you might think. A 4" hole 10" below the waterline will give you 1000 gallons per minute.

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Hole...odingtable.pdf
I knew your flow rate was too high, but it took me a minute to figure out why. The table you referenced is correct for inches of hole diameter and FEET below the waterline.
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