Leopard 46 anyone???

[Conrad30]

Anyone have any experience with these? I have heard the quality has gone down from the 45 and 47...

I like the layout a lot and will be going to see one in annapolis next month.

Anyone have one? Any good or bad stories to tell?

[Gludy]

Now that I am back from my SA trip, I will shortly be posting a video of a sea trial on this boat.

[jzk]

The Leopard 46 had some initial problems that have been allegedly solved. One got the windows bashed out of the cabin in rough seas. I would ask for serious explanations about these issues before buying one.

Otherwise, the Leopard 46 is an awesome boat. Good layout, great performance, bridgedeck clearance, and that bench set in the cockpit is awesome.

[Conrad30]

I am going to go look at one in annapolis here next month. I have a tour scheduled for a quick sea trial. How they do that in 2 hours I am unsure but I will see. The fact of the matter is I dont think I will be able to purchase new, but wont be buying one till at the earliest late 09 but more then likely spring of 10. So hopefully a few used will be available. I was really interested in getting a new one till they sent me a price sheet. Dont think anything isnt an option. New the base is 529k after basic needed options i was pushing 700k well out of my price range.

[Gludy]

I think that show boat may be on offer at a bit of a discount - worth chacking it out anyway.

I found the layout was very good indeed.

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by Conrad30

I am going to go look at one in annapolis here next month. I have a tour scheduled for a quick sea trial. How they do that in 2 hours I am unsure but I will see. The fact of the matter is I dont think I will be able to purchase new, but wont be buying one till at the earliest late 09 but more then likely spring of 10. So hopefully a few used will be available. I was really interested in getting a new one till they sent me a price sheet. Dont think anything isnt an option. New the base is 529k after basic needed options i was pushing 700k well out of my price range.

Your price is about right for a 2009 build boat. There have only been 2 on the secondhand market to date and both went for near enough what they were bought for so 10 to 15% discount on today's prices.
I have just returned from Cape Town doing the acceptance on mine so if you want anymore info please ask.

[rjrendemd]

I bought leopard 46 hull #5. I kept it in the USVI until I sold it in May of this year. It had quality issues that were too numerous to list, not the least of which were due to the Volvo saildrives. I lost 7 props in the time that I owned it and discovered that Volvo has terrible warranty service. None of the Volvo dealers would work on the warranty issues because Volvo will not reimburse them. In addition to the props coming off both engines got vapor lock after they ran for an hour or so. Volvo blamed Leopard and Leopard blamed Volvo and I had to install lift pumps at my expense to solvo the problem. Every time the engines died I had to bleed the fuel lines. I will never own another Volvo product. I have another friend who just took a newer Leopard 46 to Tahiti after sailing with me on several trips and he says that the newer Leopards have improved their quality and no longer offer Volvos as an option.

[Conrad30]

Originally Posted by rjrendemd

I bought leopard 46 hull #5. I kept it in the USVI until I sold it in May of this year. It had quality issues that were too numerous to list, not the least of which were due to the Volvo saildrives. I lost 7 props in the time that I owned it and discovered that Volvo has terrible warranty service. None of the Volvo dealers would work on the warranty issues because Volvo will not reimburse them. In addition to the props coming off both engines got vapor lock after they ran for an hour or so. Volvo blamed Leopard and Leopard blamed Volvo and I had to install lift pumps at my expense to solvo the problem. Every time the engines died I had to bleed the fuel lines. I will never own another Volvo product. I have another friend who just took a newer Leopard 46 to Tahiti after sailing with me on several trips and he says that the newer Leopards have improved their quality and no longer offer Volvos as an option.

I have heard of numerous volvo saildrive problems not just on Leopards. I will be opting for yanmars when I find one. Being that I am on about a year to a year and a half wait on purchase I hope the used market will be a little plentiful by then. How did you find the bridge heigth to your liking? I would be very interested in your other problems that you had with the cat.

Conrad

[Conrad30]

Originally Posted by Adaero

Your price is about right for a 2009 build boat. There have only been 2 on the secondhand market to date and both went for near enough what they were bought for so 10 to 15% discount on today's prices.
I have just returned from Cape Town doing the acceptance on mine so if you want anymore info please ask.

Any info on pros and cons you have would be great!!

Conrad

[rjrendemd]

The original design had a vent that opened to ventilate the cockpit. The vent had a drain that leaked directly over the electronics and I had a complete power failure in the Bahamas on my way to Puerto Rico which necessitated a return to Florida. They removed this vent on later models. The most bothersome problem was when one of the maintenance men stepped onto the port aft deck and his foot went through the deck. I was told that the early Leopards were built as light as possible to overcome weight issues but I believe that this model was "too light." I was told that this too was corrected on later models. Unfortunately this hull number had stress crack in the gelcoat over most of the aft port deck after just a few months. Many of the early models had bulkhead separation adjacent to the forward cabin door because of hull deformation. This did not happen to mine. Most of the other problems were minor and typical of a new boat model. One thing that I will say in their defense is that their warranty network was excellent and despite my problems thay took my complaints seriously and repaired them. At one point the designer Gino Morelli flew to Tortola and personally took control of my prop issues. That is I think why they ultimately dropped Volvo as an option. I am actually considering another Leopard 46, but it must have Yanmars and I will never buy another boat below hull number 30 or so because of these annoying new boat issues. If I did not have the boat close to a dealership it would have been a much bigger issue. I give kudos to Robertson and Caine for taking good care of me but I can never forgive Volvo. I was essentially abandoned by them.

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by rjrendemd

The original design had a vent that opened to ventilate the cockpit. The vent had a drain that leaked directly over the electronics and I had a complete power failure in the Bahamas on my way to Puerto Rico which necessitated a return to Florida. They removed this vent on later models. The most bothersome problem was when one of the maintenance men stepped onto the port aft deck and his foot went through the deck. I was told that the early Leopards were built as light as possible to overcome weight issues but I believe that this model was "too light." I was told that this too was corrected on later models. Unfortunately this hull number had stress crack in the gelcoat over most of the aft port deck after just a few months. Many of the early models had bulkhead separation adjacent to the forward cabin door because of hull deformation. This did not happen to mine. Most of the other problems were minor and typical of a new boat model. One thing that I will say in their defense is that their warranty network was excellent and despite my problems thay took my complaints seriously and repaired them. At one point the designer Gino Morelli flew to Tortola and personally took control of my prop issues. That is I think why they ultimately dropped Volvo as an option. I am actually considering another Leopard 46, but it must have Yanmars and I will never buy another boat below hull number 30 or so because of these annoying new boat issues. If I did not have the boat close to a dealership it would have been a much bigger issue. I give kudos to Robertson and Caine for taking good care of me but I can never forgive Volvo. I was essentially abandoned by them.

I agree with all of the above. We chartered an early hull number in the BVI last year and afterwards we wrote a report of all the problems to Leopard who passed them on to Gino. Against each fault he listed the corrective action that had been taken and on that basis we placed our order. All R&C boats are now Yanmar and they don't offer a Volvo option. I'm relieved to hear the aftermarket service you received was good as this is still one of my only concerns.
I can tell you from experience the boats are now somewhat heavier than the early hulls as I had mine weighed prior to launch 3 weeks ago and l have also seen them being laid up in the factory.
I will be able tell you more in December after the delivery trip if all of the faults have been sorted.

[Camp Director G]

Great advice, especially about the early hull numbers. If a company backs their product well, it bodes well for higher hull numbers. I am probably going to get on a Leopard 46 for a short trip in the next few weeks, then I'm hoping to be able to sail a 40 on a regular basis after that (trying to do a swap with an owner). I am very glad to read this kind of thread and the information it provides. Knowledge is power, and goes a long way toward keeping you from being adrift in the big blue.

[HKTim]

Originally Posted by Adaero

Your price is about right for a 2009 build boat. There have only been 2 on the secondhand market to date and both went for near enough what they were bought for so 10 to 15% discount on today's prices.
I have just returned from Cape Town doing the acceptance on mine so if you want anymore info please ask.

Adaero. Have enjoyed reading the blog of your delivery from South Africa and also the "comp sheet" you created in excel. Was the weight of your boat within expectations or reasonably higher as a result of "beefing up" more recently built boats.

I am still in boat choosing mode and think I have narrowed my decision down to the L46 or FP Salina. Wondering if there was anything about the Salina that stood out in your mind as an issue and made choosing the L46 easier? The one item from your data sheet that I was surprised by was that the bridgedeck clearance is much better on the L46 then the Salina. Any further thoughts on your L46 or the Salina would be great to hear about.

Thanks

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by Salina

Adaero. Have enjoyed reading the blog of your delivery from South Africa and also the "comp sheet" you created in excel. Was the weight of your boat within expectations or reasonably higher as a result of "beefing up" more recently built boats.

I am still in boat choosing mode and think I have narrowed my decision down to the L46 or FP Salina. Wondering if there was anything about the Salina that stood out in your mind as an issue and made choosing the L46 easier? The one item from your data sheet that I was surprised by was that the bridgedeck clearance is much better on the L46 then the Salina. Any further thoughts on your L46 or the Salina would be great to hear about.

Thanks

The Salina we loved when we went to see it in La Rochelle the first day but after going away and coming back the next day we had to re-consider on a few points.

• Visibilty aft from the helm is very poor you cannot see either transom and when mooring stern-to in the Med this is critical (The Leopard is fine stbd but port visibilty also suffers but we have now fitted a colour camera so I can easily see from the helm on the E120).
• Storage. For a boat of this size there basically isn't any. Have a good look round the cockpit there is nowhere to keep warps, fenders, tools, and all the stuff you need handy. Also internally we felt the storage was also poor. There is space though to create some but that would mean serious after market alterations.
• This might be a personal thing but we don't like the 12mm gap between all of the cabinets and the hull. The dealers will tell you its for air circulation, bull!! Its so they don't have to scribe cabinetry to suit each hull instead they can CNC cut each panel and one fits all!.

Don't get me wrong I like the Salina but for the two of us it was just that bit too big (the Leopard probably is too but its manageable). Here in the Canary Islands we are paying by the sq Meter for marinas. The cheapest so far has been €0.20 per sqm per night when booking a month the dearest was €0.39 so another consideration.

As far as weight of the Leopard if you read my blog you will see what my boat actually weighed coming out of the factory. One piece of advice is don't base your decision on what any factory tells you the weight of the boat is! Test sail them, its the only way to see the performance.
I hope that helps.

[HKTim]

Adaero. Thanks for the comments on the Salina and L46. Can I trouble you for one more please. What did you think about the Salina's bridgedeck vs the L46. Slamming did not seem to be an issue for you on the trip from Cape Town in heavier air right? Cheers