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Old 30-08-2014, 15:55   #31
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

I still think $ 380 is cheap.Its not a permit as such but a protection for the country if it was $1000 or more it is still worth it.As someone else here stated once back in as an Aussie or tourist you get the rest of the country and its services ,whatever they might be for free.The world should be based on user pays and why should the rest of the small population in Aus have to totally foot the bill for a couple of hundred people coming in or back in by boat.
If the figures are actually only 200 or so boats< 25 mtrs a good percentage of them would be Australian registered so the actual impact on the tourism dollar is really negligible.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:06   #32
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Just a note here, the Australian Quarantine fees also apply for Australian owned yachts returning from a trip offshore. It is not only "rich foreigners" who have to pay. Local offshore cruisers are not too happy about this. It is not that the AQIS fee is a large portion of one's total cruising costs, it is that it is way higher than New Caledonia and NZ, and that the reason for it appears to be funding for empire building.

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............
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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Do these Australian yachts have to pull into a foreign port on their trip in order to get the shakedown, or just leave port for X number of days?...................
In essence, locals pay for an AQIS inspection (which isn't a shakedown BTW) if they are returning from a foreign port. If the locals want to do an offshore sail, they can sail over 20,000 nm without crossing their wake though many climatic zones and visit hundreds of ports and thousands of anchorages without going "foreign".

A $50 increase - come on guys, get a grip; it's just 5% of a boatbuck; heck I'd spill that much on the first night ashore, more if Boatie or the OP were rafted up on the bar stools
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:09   #33
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Just imagine, you feel you got ripped off by the local marina. What recourse do you have? Go to court and get ripped off by an attorney and if you're lucky, recover 1/2 of what you got ripped for?


Or, go see Luigi and present your case, along with a copy of the bill. A couple of hours later, the marina owner is standing next to your boat, with 2 big Sicilian guys and he's got a freshly broken finger, a refund, a VERY sincere apology and a promise to never do that again.

Remember how many times the LAPD got called to OJ's house for a domestic disturbance, only to leave with an autographed pic of OJ until finally, she was dead. They then proceeded to mishandle the evidence and lose the case.

Well, things would be different with the mafia in charge. One call about a domestic disturbance, and OJ would be nursing a broken hand and missing a couple of prized momentos. He'd never do it again, she'd be alive today and we wouldn't have this ridiculous "the nearest male goes to jail" policy every time someone calls 911.

Ok...that was officially over the top weird.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:26   #34
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Re: Yet another fee hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Do you have any figures from before they charged for quarantine? Perhaps there was a big drop in yacht visits as a result of them charging for it.

As beautiful as Australia is, and as fond as we are of the people, 207 yachts per yr seems like a pretty low number, enough to make me wonder why people are staying away if I were working for the tourism board.

That's also a disturbing drop in >25M LOA from 2011-12 to 2012-13. I wonder if they raised the tariffs on some imported goods as well.
I lifted those figures from an Australian government report. They expect less than 25m vessel entries this year to be 314 but don't say why. The number is probably BS anyway.

I was actually looking for the current sniffer dog fees but they are not published. These days you have to pay the contractor directly so you can expect upwards of $100/hour including travelling time.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:30   #35
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by Mirage Gecko View Post
I still think $ 380 is cheap.Its not a permit as such but a protection for the country if it was $1000 or more it is still worth it.As someone else here stated once back in as an Aussie or tourist you get the rest of the country and its services ,whatever they might be for free.
I don't think so. You're still gonna pay for mooring, or slip fees, or pump outs, or haulouts, or whatever repairs you my need, and it sounds like Australia may not be the best place to get any of that done.

Consider this. The quarantine inspection isn't for my protection, it's for the countries' protection. Why shouldn't the citizens of the country pay for their own protection. I'm certainly not getting protected fom teh hundreds of poisonous animals and insects already there.

The world should be based on user pays and why should the rest of the small population in Aus have to totally foot the bill for a couple of hundred people coming in or back in by boat.
Because $380 is a lot more expensive than $380x207 / 23 million. That comes out to .342 cents per person. You'd have to have 3 people in your family for it to cost you one single cent. Wow! That must really be killing some families!

If the figures are actually only 200 or so boats< 25 mtrs a good percentage of them would be Australian registered so the actual impact on the tourism dollar is really negligible.

Perhaps. $380 per boat isn't really negligible compared to 1/3 of a cent per person. THAT is negligible.
Chris
It seems like you're saying the higher the fees, the better the protection.

Yet Hawaii doesn't charge anything for quarantining yachts, and they're equally adept at protecting themselves from invading species.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:33   #36
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Re: Yet another fee hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
I lifted those figures from an Australian government report. They expect less than 25m vessel entries this year to be 314 but don't say why. The number is probably BS anyway.

I was actually looking for the current sniffer dog fees but they are not published. These days you have to pay the contractor directly so you can expect upwards of $100/hour including travelling time.
Are these drug dogs? How do they decide you need this extra service? Looks? Nationality? Size of yacht? Attitude? Pigmentation? Jamaican accent?
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:38   #37
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

You might want to move to Somalia, no taxes, no fees, no government, no laws, no services.

So what is the total cost of fees to visit OZ by yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Just imagine, you feel you got ripped off by the local marina. What recourse do you have? Go to court and get ripped off by an attorney and if you're lucky, recover 1/2 of what you got ripped for?


Or, go see Luigi and present your case, along with a copy of the bill. A couple of hours later, the marina owner is standing next to your boat, with 2 big Sicilian guys and he's got a freshly broken finger, a refund, a VERY sincere apology and a promise to never do that again.

Remember how many times the LAPD got called to OJ's house for a domestic disturbance, only to leave with an autographed pic of OJ until finally, she was dead. They then proceeded to mishandle the evidence and lose the case.

Well, things would be different with the mafia in charge. One call about a domestic disturbance, and OJ would be nursing a broken hand and missing a couple of prized momentos. He'd never do it again, she'd be alive today and we wouldn't have this ridiculous "the nearest male goes to jail" policy every time someone calls 911.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:41   #38
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
It seems like you're saying the higher the fees, the better the protection.

Yet Hawaii doesn't charge anything for quarantining yachts, and they're equally adept at protecting themselves from invading species.
Ditto NZ....which has been relaxing a lot of their quarantine requirements as they have worked out that a lot of things aren't a risk..... and they have a lot more at stake than Oz...lets face it all they have is agriculture, hot water, and the Hobbit.....oh and the All Blacks....

Australia really doesn't have a good reputation in the Pacific as a destination... hitting boats with massive fines for not giving 48 hours notice doesn't help.

With me its the principle of the thing... I recently paid about $300 to check in and out of Tonga... I didn't mind that as its a small country with few resources. The Australian 'attitude' is what gives me the irrits as much as anything.
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:48   #39
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
You might want to move to Somalia, no taxes, no fees, no government, no laws, no services.
Or NZ... no entry fees, no tax on any work done on your yacht or on any services provided.

Called up Warden Point and gave an 0600 ETA... 'OK... tie up to the quarantine dock.. Bruce ( customs and immig) will be down after breakfast....'
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:54   #40
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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You might want to move to Somalia, no taxes, no fees, no government, no laws, no services.

So what is the total cost of fees to visit OZ by yacht?
I never said I didn't want gov't, just that the mafia could provide the exact same services for a fraction of the cost, more efficiently and while turning a profit, instead of tens of trillions of deficit.


It's looking like a couple thousand just to pull in, unless they call in the drug dogs, then it's another $3,000.

Might be cheaper to fly in and just rent a car.


How times have changed. I really miss the old "Dial A Sailor" days. The girls were very friendly, the beers were free and I didn't mind being called "Yank!" because they were genuinely nice people and loved to have a great time!

We tried to show them an equally good time when the Aussie Navy pulled in for exercises in HI. We took a bunch of them out to Waikiki and as could be predicted, they still drank us under the table, we were laughing the entire time!
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:56   #41
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

Quarantine has penalties for those who do things wrong, OK, but it seems they also penalise those who do it right.
The service they do is not for cruisers but for Oz security. Maybe they'll start charging a Law Enforcement Fee next.

Semantics
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Old 30-08-2014, 16:58   #42
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

A couple of observations:

The dogs that you must pay for are for detecting termites. The drug dogs, which come to you via Customs, not AQIS, are free, as are all the Customs services.

I, and I think other posters, are not saying that there should not be a quarantine inspection nor that Australia has not the right and the duty to avoid incoming pests. We are saying that other nearby countries, New Zealand and New Caledonia as examples, have thorough quarantine inspections and do not charge for them.

Another gripe, not yet discussed is that AQIS has very complicated rules re what is allowed and what is not. They change frequently, and the individual agents interpret them quite differently. We have, for instance, had S&W mayonnaise, purchased in Australia and labeled "made in Australia" confiscated upon entry, whilst on the same day a different boat with a different inspector was allowed to keep theirs. One year they confiscated all honey, even unopened jars of Australian honey. The very next year they were not interested unless there were visible "bee parts" in the honey. We have had a tinned ham, labled "made in Australia" confiscated... the very same tin that had been ok the year before (it was so awful that after eating the first tin, we couldn't face the second one!). Didn't really mind them taking that one, but you can see that the enforcement is spotty and apparently arbitrary, and this is frustrating. We try very hard to have no forbidden stores on board when arriving, and often our efforts are to no avail.

All this said, we will likely continue to spend cyclone seasons in Oz, for we do enjoy the country, its people and its waters. We have gone to a lot of trouble and expense to achieve "temporary resident" status, and don't want to abandon that. This doesn't mean that we won't complain about facets that we find awkward or difficult. We have contributed considerable funds to the Australian economy in our twenty odd years in and out of here, we pay lots of direct and indirect taxes, and while our desires don't rate as heavily as a citizen's, they shouldn't be ignored, either.

Enough whinging... it is a beautiful sunny winter day and there is varnishing to do!

Jim
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Old 30-08-2014, 17:03   #43
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
A couple of observations:

The dogs that you must pay for are for detecting termites. The drug dogs, which come to you via Customs, not AQIS, are free, as are all the Customs services.

I, and I think other posters, are not saying that there should not be a quarantine inspection nor that Australia has not the right and the duty to avoid incoming pests. We are saying that other nearby countries, New Zealand and New Caledonia as examples, have thorough quarantine inspections and do not charge for them.

Another gripe, not yet discussed is that AQIS has very complicated rules re what is allowed and what is not. They change frequently, and the individual agents interpret them quite differently. We have, for instance, had S&W mayonnaise, purchased in Australia and labeled "made in Australia" confiscated upon entry, whilst on the same day a different boat with a different inspector was allowed to keep theirs. One year they confiscated all honey, even unopened jars of Australian honey. The very next year they were not interested unless there were visible "bee parts" in the honey. We have had a tinned ham, labled "made in Australia" confiscated... the very same tin that had been ok the year before (it was so awful that after eating the first tin, we couldn't face the second one!). Didn't really mind them taking that one, but you can see that the enforcement is spotty and apparently arbitrary, and this is frustrating. We try very hard to have no forbidden stores on board when arriving, and often our efforts are to no avail.

All this said, we will likely continue to spend cyclone seasons in Oz, for we do enjoy the country, its people and its waters. We have gone to a lot of trouble and expense to achieve "temporary resident" status, and don't want to abandon that. This doesn't mean that we won't complain about facets that we find awkward or difficult. We have contributed considerable funds to the Australian economy in our twenty odd years in and out of here, we pay lots of direct and indirect taxes, and while our desires don't rate as heavily as a citizen's, they shouldn't be ignored, either.

Enough whinging... it is a beautiful sunny winter day and there is varnishing to do!

Jim
Thanks for the further clarification!

Do you remember when they started charging the visitors for the AQIS? It makes no difference, just curious when things changed.
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Old 30-08-2014, 17:27   #44
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
A couple of observations:

The dogs that you must pay for are for detecting termites. The drug dogs, which come to you via Customs, not AQIS, are free, as are all the Customs services.

I, and I think other posters, are not saying that there should not be a quarantine inspection nor that Australia has not the right and the duty to avoid incoming pests. We are saying that other nearby countries, New Zealand and New Caledonia as examples, have thorough quarantine inspections and do not charge for them.

Another gripe, not yet discussed is that AQIS has very complicated rules re what is allowed and what is not. They change frequently, and the individual agents interpret them quite differently. We have, for instance, had S&W mayonnaise, purchased in Australia and labeled "made in Australia" confiscated upon entry, whilst on the same day a different boat with a different inspector was allowed to keep theirs. One year they confiscated all honey, even unopened jars of Australian honey. The very next year they were not interested unless there were visible "bee parts" in the honey. We have had a tinned ham, labled "made in Australia" confiscated... the very same tin that had been ok the year before (it was so awful that after eating the first tin, we couldn't face the second one!). Didn't really mind them taking that one, but you can see that the enforcement is spotty and apparently arbitrary, and this is frustrating. We try very hard to have no forbidden stores on board when arriving, and often our efforts are to no avail.

All this said, we will likely continue to spend cyclone seasons in Oz, for we do enjoy the country, its people and its waters. We have gone to a lot of trouble and expense to achieve "temporary resident" status, and don't want to abandon that. This doesn't mean that we won't complain about facets that we find awkward or difficult. We have contributed considerable funds to the Australian economy in our twenty odd years in and out of here, we pay lots of direct and indirect taxes, and while our desires don't rate as heavily as a citizen's, they shouldn't be ignored, either.

Enough whinging... it is a beautiful sunny winter day and there is varnishing to do!

Jim
Jim sadly you are correct in your observations, many inspection officers are not particularly bright and some are close to brain dead. (Don't ask me how I know)
The inspections are to prevent incursions of plants and insects that we do not have and do not want and as such justified but the charge is in my opion somewhat over the top.
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Old 30-08-2014, 17:53   #45
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Re: Yet Another Fee Hike in Oz

Even if one agrees that $380 isn't by itself a huge amount of money, if every country charged the same it would cost thousands just to cross the Pacific.
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