Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-08-2015, 09:31   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,172
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

From one Scowegian to another:

Remember that the Danish west coast is NASTY. Very thin water, three reefs (sand bars) paralleling the shore. Norwesterlies roaring down the fetch from Iceland howling like a thousand demented banshees. So stick on the Pommie side if you are gonna do it. There are bolt holes there. There are none on the Danish side save for Esbjerg and Thyborøn. Thyborøn is not easy to enter in any kind of weather, though okay once you are in.

Twixt Esbjerg and Thyborøn is Hvide Sande and Thorsminde. Entering either of those two in a November blow should be left to the professionals with local knowledge.

North of Thyborøn is Jammerbugten, the "Bay of Wailing" - "wailing" not "whaling". It is so named cos the shore people used to light false beacons there to lure ships bound around the Skaw at the top of Jutland into Jammerbugten where they'd be wrecked on the lee shore. The topography is such that once you are in the bay with the banshees wailing at you, to beat off is nearly impossible. I believe it is some years now since shipwrecked sailors have actually been murdered on that coast, but not so long ago "wrecking" used to be the principal means of livelihood for the locals.

As someone said: Use the Kiel Canal. Then go north through the Lillebelt (or better still the Storebelt) into the Kattegat. Lillebelt runs 6 or 8 knots quite often. Follow the lovely EAST cost of Jutland to the port of Frederikshavn and then hop over to Norway from there. The peninsula of Jutland is an excellent breakwater and windbreak. Even so, in November you should be prepared for 30 knots of wind, and a very bumpy ride in the Kattegat.

TrentePieds
__________________

__________________
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 09:34   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Rogoznica, Croatia
Boat: Bavaria Cruiser 40
Posts: 620
Images: 16
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

If you are going to go from UK to Bergen in one hop across the North Sea find out where the fixed oil platforms are and which are closest to your planned route. Contact the company that operates them (you can find this from the DTI or Noggie equivalent) in advance, explain your plan and ask if you can send them your passage plan with ETA at their location to use them as waypoints and that you will contact them as you pass to confirm you are on schedule etc etc. Please note that oil platforms have a 500m exclusion zone around them so don't get too close.

I'm pretty sure the Radio Operator & Bridge crew won't have a problem especially if you have contacted them in advance with your passage plan. If you see any helicopters in the area of the platform be aware the radio operator will be busy with the air traffic so you may not get a response or it might be worth waiting a few minutes before calling.

This way if you get into difficulties you already know the nearest platform and their call sign. Each platform has a dedicated standby vessel who can come to you assistance plus if you have not radio'd in by a certain time according to your schedule the platform can put out an alert on your behalf.

Keiron
__________________

__________________
kas_1611 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 11:24   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SF Bay
Boat: DownEaster 38
Posts: 144
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

I don't have any personal experience, but know people who have sailed from the UK to Norway, but they went across the Channel to the Netherlands, then up the west coast of Denmark before crossing to Sweden and up to Norway. You'd have to sail a long way north up the east coast of the UK before striking out across the North Sea so it would seem more logical and safer to cross to NL, then up. If you are already in Aberdeen you could go up to the Shetlands and then over, but November seems pretty dodgy. Just my two Øre! Lykke til and let us know what you decide and how it works out.
__________________
bobmcd625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 11:29   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SF Bay
Boat: DownEaster 38
Posts: 144
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

ps to earlier post. My friends did take the Kiel Canal as was suggested by others. Not the west coast of Jutland as I implied.
You can also check out the website of Attainable Adventure Cruising (Attainable Adventure Cruising) as they have much experience with that route.
__________________
bobmcd625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 11:50   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Thanks guys. Highly appreciate the feedback. I'll keep you posted on my decision. Cheers
__________________
Bluesky82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2015, 16:10   #21
Registered User
 
jreiter190's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne, Fl., Patrick Airforce Marina
Boat: 1965 Pearson Alberg 35 #190
Posts: 322
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

VonWettering inHolland is great. If you wanted to motor through the rivers and canals they will deliver your rig at low cost anywhere in Europe so you don't have to carry a mast sticking over the bow and stern through all those beautiful locks. No white knuckles, free parking, castles and swans mostly. Or, they will put your boat on a low boy and you can ride with the driver all the way to Bergen with your baby right behind you.
__________________
jreiter190 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 07:58   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 51
Unhappy Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

The North Sea is only relatively comfortable in the June, July, August window.
The risks in a 32 foot boat are significant.
Advice on the best route in November is academic.

Will your insurance company provide cover in November?
Have you considered the 9 or 10 hours of daylight at that time along with the air temperature and the discomfort.
Have you considered if your crew jump ship due to hardship [hard ship indeed] and what you would do then.?

Is it feasible for you to get through the Kiel canal before November and wait in a yard there until the following year? and then proceed north?

Good luck!
__________________
kish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 08:02   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Thanks Kish. I think the kiel canal looks like a good option. You have any experience about mooring there over a period of time?
__________________
Bluesky82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 08:10   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 39
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Even in the summer is the wether sommetims nesty and whee sail there in the winter and summer.
Go by nice wether over the sea, this is faster and all to do in daytrips to Germany if you want.
If you have time go in the inner waterways in Vlissingen and go so to the East of Denmark. The days are short in the winter and you are every evening in a nice villige or thown. By bad wether stay you a day longer, ... . In a lot of places can you stay for free on pontoons or a bridge to the next day. On the locks are not more allways allowed to stay but this regulation is proberley again changed to that time.

Enjoy it
__________________
KWISPEL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 08:38   #25
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,751
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Quote:
Originally Posted by kish View Post
The North Sea is only relatively comfortable in the June, July, August window.
The risks in a 32 foot boat are significant.
Advice on the best route in November is academic.

Will your insurance company provide cover in November?
Have you considered the 9 or 10 hours of daylight at that time along with the air temperature and the discomfort.
Have you considered if your crew jump ship due to hardship [hard ship indeed] and what you would do then.?

Is it feasible for you to get through the Kiel canal before November and wait in a yard there until the following year? and then proceed north?

Good luck!
The North Sea is never "relatively comfortable". It's a tough bit of water given to storms and harsh sea conditions year round. It's not for sissies even in the best season (actually the weather starts to deteriorate at the end of July). The main difference in seasons is the frequency of weather windows, which goes down in winter. The OP is based in Guernsey - if he sails there in winter, the North Sea in November will hold no surprises for him, including the cold and dark. This is not dangerous as long as your vessel is well found and you have enough time to wait for proper windows. Guernsey waters are if anything even tougher than the North Sea because of the phenomenal sea conditions created by gales blowing against the extreme tidal streams there (the Alderney Race is in the OP's back garden). An experienced Channel sailor will find no unfamiliar challenges in the North Sea.

A number of routes have been suggested. The only one I would caution about is the long way W to E from Scotland - only because that will put you at sea for more days than you can be certain about the weather forecast. Ok in summer, but in November I would stick to the European side, and in a 32' boat, surely through the canals, which will get you out of the North Sea altogether for most of the route. Sounds to me like a great idea to go on through the Kiel Canal - from there N it's a doddle in reasonable weather, as Jutland blocks the Atlantic swell, and the tidal streams are less there (almost zero near Kiel). Adds some miles, though.


I'm in Sweden at the moment and will be doing my fourth North Sea crossing next week. After a cold, rainy, windy summer, high pressure has finally set in, and it's looking like the weather will be benign - maybe even an Easterly flow (please God). We shall see. If we have fine weather and winds with East in them, we will go nonstop from Helgoland to Cowes, going straight down the middle between the TSS lanes and dodging the oil platforms. Should be doable with three nights at sea if the wind is decent.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-être pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 13:22   #26
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
From one Scowegian to another:

Remember that the Danish west coast is NASTY. Very thin water, three reefs (sand bars) paralleling the shore. Norwesterlies roaring down the fetch from Iceland howling like a thousand demented banshees. So stick on the Pommie side if you are gonna do it. There are bolt holes there. There are none on the Danish side save for Esbjerg and Thyborøn. Thyborøn is not easy to enter in any kind of weather, though okay once you are in.

Twixt Esbjerg and Thyborøn is Hvide Sande and Thorsminde. Entering either of those two in a November blow should be left to the professionals with local knowledge.

North of Thyborøn is Jammerbugten, the "Bay of Wailing" - "wailing" not "whaling". It is so named cos the shore people used to light false beacons there to lure ships bound around the Skaw at the top of Jutland into Jammerbugten where they'd be wrecked on the lee shore. The topography is such that once you are in the bay with the banshees wailing at you, to beat off is nearly impossible. I believe it is some years now since shipwrecked sailors have actually been murdered on that coast, but not so long ago "wrecking" used to be the principal means of livelihood for the locals.

As someone said: Use the Kiel Canal. Then go north through the Lillebelt (or better still the Storebelt) into the Kattegat. Lillebelt runs 6 or 8 knots quite often. Follow the lovely EAST cost of Jutland to the port of Frederikshavn and then hop over to Norway from there. The peninsula of Jutland is an excellent breakwater and windbreak. Even so, in November you should be prepared for 30 knots of wind, and a very bumpy ride in the Kattegat.

TrentePieds




This is what I would do ( I live in Denmark). Up through the kieler canal (35 euuros), then up through Storbelt, up along the east coast of Jutland to Læsø,, then over to Sweden and follow that north until you cross back across to Norway.


Thsis will give you daysails the whole way and lots of hidey-holes if things go wrong while you're on the water.






As Dockhead said - watch your weather windows very very carefully. Make sure you have the correct clothing and don't push it.


You can do it - although I have to say I would require an extremely powerful reason to do it, and I do sail in the autumn and winter here in Denmark
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 14:49   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Thanks again Dockhead. You've got some great knowledge and I have experienced the tidal stream against the wind down here and how it can transform a nice days sail into a shelter seeking one even in F4-5 winds. Fog out of nowhere isn't uncommon either. Anyways it seems the most sensible thing to do is go for the Kiel Canal and figure out if mooring there and take it in stages is a sensible solution. Thanks for your post too Carstenb.
__________________
Bluesky82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 19:04   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 51
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Glad to see that you are taking the sensible option.

Every ocean has its season.
The North Sea in winter is not for yachts.

A cautionary acount of unrealistic planning is illustrated here:

Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

In February 2013 a Swan 48 Wolfhound attempted to sail from Newport RI to Antiqua with the ambition to be in Antiqua for April race week.

Wrong season, wrong decision, disastrous result, crew abandoned ship and were picked-up by an east going freighter and ended up in Gibraltar!
__________________
kish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 01:36   #29
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,751
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky82 View Post
Thanks again Dockhead. You've got some great knowledge and I have experienced the tidal stream against the wind down here and how it can transform a nice days sail into a shelter seeking one even in F4-5 winds. Fog out of nowhere isn't uncommon either. Anyways it seems the most sensible thing to do is go for the Kiel Canal and figure out if mooring there and take it in stages is a sensible solution. Thanks for your post too Carstenb.
Good plan. All you need for that is plenty of time. But like that you can day sail the whole way with little or no risk of getting caught out in bad weather. Be sure to check out the "mast up route" through the canals from Vlissingen (Flushing).

One more tip, which might be unnecessary if you've done this trip before -- the flood tide in the Channel and Southern part of the North Sea works its way Eastward and Northward gradually, which means timing is crucial. If you time it right and are making decent speed, you can carry a fair tide almost the whole way from C-bourg well past Dover. A great tool for calculating the implications of different departure times and passage speeds is Neptune Planner +; highly recommended for these waters.

Concerning berthing: Kiel is expensive in the season; I don't know about November. But Denmark and Sweden will be cheap for sure if you need to leave the boat somewhere. The best place to leave a boat (in season; I don't know about November) near the Kiel Canal is in the Liegegemeinschaft Cuxhaven, in the old Amerikahafen, which has a special dirt cheap rate for boats left with no one on board. Very convenient connection by train to Hamburg airport.

Good luck.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2015, 06:10   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston Area
Boat: Beneteau 423
Posts: 223
Re: Experience from North Sea sailing in November

Whatever your decision, here is a good book that you might be able to relate to.

Into The Light: A Family's Epic Journey, by Jaja Martin

http://www.amazon.com/Into-Light-Fam.../dp/1930086040
__________________

__________________
hlev00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Sea to Black Sea Passage Randal Johnson General Sailing Forum 8 14-08-2014 03:05
Crew Wanted: sailing north from lake maquarie must have experience nickcompass29 Crew Archives 9 03-05-2014 21:17
Crew Available: Day/o'night sailing experience wanted,Tasmania,north coast djaustralia Crew Archives 0 18-03-2013 03:39
Any Experience with Beale Marine or Sea to Sea Insurance off-the-grid Dollars & Cents 0 18-08-2011 15:16
Crew Wanted: North Carolina to Tortola - November 2010 doublewide Crew Archives 7 16-10-2010 13:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.