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Old 12-03-2019, 17:21   #31
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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Yep you are so correct. And it was not because of boat maintenance issues. We had a haul out and had to replace our dripless shaft bearing. But the Western Carib is delightful and very inexpensive. We also did not limit our travel.. We traveled all through Guatemala and Panama and saw a lot of Belize. Of course the San Blas helped a lot on the expenses. But the Western Carib is a great place to cruise
Yes, Ive been cruising the W Carib for 14 years now! And, I still have a few areas to explore more. In the San Blas we only spend about $1K per month or less. After you've bought a life time supply of Molas there just isnt much opportunity to spend money in the San Blas.
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Old 12-03-2019, 22:51   #32
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

What do folks think about boat size?

For the Med, I would think that you might want to get a smaller, less expensive boat. It would be easier to find space quayside and if you start feeling cramped, there is lots of affordable lodging to choose from.

While in the caribbean, you would want something bigger with more off the grid gear for a full time live-aboard?
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Old 12-03-2019, 23:47   #33
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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What do folks think about boat size?

For the Med, I would think that you might want to get a smaller, less expensive boat. It would be easier to find space quayside and if you start feeling cramped, there is lots of affordable lodging to choose from.

While in the caribbean, you would want something bigger with more off the grid gear for a full time live-aboard?
And you’d be mistaken in your thinking and conclusions IMHO. In the Med it pays to be self-sufficient and able to avoid expensive marinas.
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Old 13-03-2019, 01:25   #34
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

If it is only about 6 months, take something small in both locations. Less luggage to carry around when moving to the boat.

If you intent long term cruising, a more comfortable larger vessel can be better. In Europe there are boats with heating inside instead of A/C, so you can stay in colder climates comfy and warm.

If you go south / start south in May (Israel, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Sicily, Tunisia, Morocco), it will be warm enough, only the northern part of the Med is not so warm in May.
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Old 13-03-2019, 02:26   #35
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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The offshore insurance market is a lot different today than a few years ago. Many less choices for coverage and much higher premiums. Underwriters getting out of the business, others laying off employees.
???? - We are still getting offshore insurance as we are in the Med - may go to the Red Sea - may do a crossing this coming Nov = our insurance has not changed a lot except for the year a lot of folks thought they could hide out in a hurricane hole in the Carib and lost their boat and we all got to pay for their stupidity -

So not sure why is so different than it was "a few years ago"
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Old 13-03-2019, 02:30   #36
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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Thanks a lot for all your replies!!

I clearly had the wrong info but I am happy everyone seems to agree on things, so this all seems clearer in my head.

Now, my question is: In the caribbean, I can easily spend 6 months from march to september. In the med, the weather is still cold in march. I have 2 toddllers and this might be a problem if its too cold.
I cant do med AND caribbean, so, any suggestion on how to go about spending 6 months in the med?? Need to be back home for september.

Thanks again everyone to help me clear out things this far!
As an American you have one small issue that needs to be overcome in the Med and that is the Schengen Agreement - 90 days in the EU Schengen area 90 days out. Needs a lot of planning on how to get the most out of those days.

Our suggestion would be Italy - a bit of Greece then Albania and on up. Save a few days of Schengen to get back to where you want to leave the boat.

We are doing our planning now for the coming sailing season and it taking a bit of time to max our 90 days before we need to get out.
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Old 13-03-2019, 13:44   #37
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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As an American you have one small issue that needs to be overcome in the Med and that is the Schengen Agreement - 90 days in the EU Schengen area 90 days out. Needs a lot of planning on how to get the most out of those days.

Our suggestion would be Italy - a bit of Greece then Albania and on up. Save a few days of Schengen to get back to where you want to leave the boat.

We are doing our planning now for the coming sailing season and it taking a bit of time to max our 90 days before we need to get out.
Hi Chuck,

Have you ever considered transiting Greece from non-Schengen countries so your time in Greece doesn't count against your Schengen limit?

https://www.williamsandsmithells.com...s-from-the-ca/
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Old 14-03-2019, 01:27   #38
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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Hi Chuck,

Have you ever considered transiting Greece from non-Schengen countries so your time in Greece doesn't count against your Schengen limit?

https://www.williamsandsmithells.com...s-from-the-ca/
We sailed Greece twice. First time we left our winter home in Tunisia and checked into the EU in Sicily and sailed the west and north side of it and did a bit of inland travel. Then through the Messina Straits and a quick trip across to Albania - forgot where we checked out - we spent some time sailing the entire coast of Albania before checking back into the EU/Greece in Corfu - we island hopped all the way to Olympus then thru the canal and to Athens to visit and wait out a nasty blow. We island hopped across to Turkey checking out at Samos. We were a couple of days over and they did not check well and ignored it.

Our 2nd time was from Turkey through the northern Greek islands to the Greek north coast and then down inside Evia Island down to Crete where we hit some and broke our prop. We eventually made Rhodes and were a couple of weeks over and after a lot "discussions" they let us go with no fine but it was not easy as they did not recognize "act of God".

So all in all we have sailed a lot of Greece - just have watch those Schengen days and plan plan plan on how to see as much as possible in the time frame allotted. Currently planning our summer sail season and we have an aggressive plan and a lot of miles to get to areas we have not been to yet but the planning has already been several days and a lot more to come before we leave in May.
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Old 14-03-2019, 10:43   #39
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

Thanks Chuck,

Sounds like you always get your passport stamped when entering Greece so it counts against your Schengen days instead of just transiting where you give up some privileges “Without such a stamp non-Schengen/non-EU nationals do not have free circulation ashore” but don’t have to worry as much about overstaying Schengen...
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Old 14-03-2019, 13:07   #40
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

Aside from the iron hand of the Schengen rules...and rashly assuming the OP and entire family are US citizens...and incidentally, traveling with young kids requires some cautions about having their passports, apparently some countries are getting picky to ensure there is no human trafficking when last names may differ...

Has the OP looked into how difficult it may be to "get" a boat for six months? Or is planning to sail one over? Those could all be big reasons to go one way or the other.

But overall I'd have to agree that the Med would be a far richer environment for young kids. Lots more than beaches and bars (oh my!) and swimming for them, even if I'd expect marinas to cost way more. Depending on what you're eating and where (on the boat? Restaurants?) prices can be very different, but SO MUCH of everything in the Carib has had to be imported long distances at significant cost.

First, I'd look into the logistics and costs of getting that boat for six months. Including insuring it.
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Old 14-03-2019, 23:37   #41
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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Originally Posted by comesatime View Post
Thanks Chuck,

Sounds like you always get your passport stamped when entering Greece so it counts against your Schengen days instead of just transiting where you give up some privileges “Without such a stamp non-Schengen/non-EU nationals do not have free circulation ashore” but don’t have to worry as much about overstaying Schengen...

We don't generally transit an area. We pick an area we want to see and then plan for that. In our 2 Greek seasons we visited a of islands and that is why we are here. As it is we have seen most of the Med - but saying that and as you said above this year when we leave Israel we will go to Egypt and then north as far as possible before checking in the EU. We have seen most of the area we will be transiting so unless we get caught or have an issue and need to go ashore we will just drop the hook for some sleep before heading on north. We will see how far we can get.
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Old 15-03-2019, 01:07   #42
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

If you intent to fly over and buy a boat in the Med, add 1..2 months for the process of de-/re-registration etc. before finally setting sails.
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Old 15-03-2019, 01:19   #43
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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If you intent to fly over and buy a boat in the Med, add 1..2 months for the process of de-/re-registration etc. before finally setting sails.
^^^^THIS^^^^

Even we as EU citizens using a quicky country (which no longer allows nonresidents to register) took a LOT of weeks. Plus don't forget after you jump thru the hoops for the rego, you gotta reprogram a few devices with your new MMSI, which often requires them to be removed and sent away (except Vesper Marine, those rockstars!). That can be another week or two right there. Not to mention finding the hidden easter eggs the PO didn't tell you about but that you should prolly fix before setting sail....
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Old 18-03-2019, 10:54   #44
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

Am I right in thinking that the visa rules in Belize prohibit a long term stay of say 2 years?
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Old 18-03-2019, 11:25   #45
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Re: costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

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Am I right in thinking that the visa rules in Belize prohibit a long term stay of say 2 years?
Do you mean "visas" (which are for people), or "cruising permit" (for boats), or both?

If cruising permit, long term stay requires importing the vessel (36% duty), or posting a temporary importation bond (I've know people who've done this and actually gotten it back! Much to my surprise & their relief), or registering it as a foriegn vessel (normally reserved for boats in charter service).

IIRC the normal cruising permit is for 30 days and can be extended short-term.

Note: inconsistencey is the norm in Belize, especially where foreign vessels are concerned. Fees, policies, and procedures often vary from port to port or officer to officer. I even had them change once between the (PITA) cruisers in front of me in line and me (fortunately in my favor)!
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