costs of sailing the med vs caribbean

[bensolomon]

I have sailed both with family. The Med wins hands down! The places from ancient history the kids were able to see, then talk about those experiences and places in school.....priceless. Food was delicious and easy to find. Just like at home....prepare meals on board....cheap. Splurge at a restaurant once a week (5 person family). Caribbean....every beach has sand and plan trees. Kids got tired of snorkeling pretty quick. I'm the one who likes the passage making in the family. The Med was better for shorter sails in between destinations. Also, in the med, I found that tying to the quay was either free or cheap, as was electricity. Water was what they charged for, especially in Greece.

Go to the Med!!!! Get Rod Heikel's Greek water pilot and Italy water pilot. Amazing!!

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by GS1

Hi all,

Trying to decide where my familly and I are going to spend a 6 month sailing vacation. Mediterranean or Caribbean?

So far, this is what I found out, please let me know if this is true, and what I am potentially missing:

Caribbean (thinking from florida to grenada)
* A bit less crowded that med
* More free anchorage spots
* Cheaper marinas (what is an average marina fee for a 40ft boat?)
* Cheapish food (I know some foods that comes from the continent can be
very expensive, but you can get foor for cheap)
* Easier, shorter sailing between moorings
* Warm and nice year round (except hurricane season)
* buying a boat there is more expensive than greece or croatia

Med (thinking croatia, greece, turkey)
* More crowded
* Overnights mostly in marinas
* More expensive marinas (what is an average marina fee for a 40ft
boat?)
* Cost of food?. Not sure how this compares to caribbean
* Cost of fuel? Not sure how this compares to caribbean
* More interesting sites to visit
* Gets cold in winter
* Rougher sees in some areas
* boats in greece or croatia seem to be the cheapest around (not sure why)

what else could be added to the comparison to help decide?

Also, besides the cost of marinas, can you tell me what could I be looking at in terms of cost (for a 40ft boat) to leave her in the dry for the off season?

Thanks

G

Where to start?

The Med (and all the other water around like Adriatic sea, Ionian Sea, Aegean sea, Tyrrhanian sea, Marmara sea etc.) is a one big pond surrounded by land and has lots of islands, especially in the eastern part.

The Med is inhibited for millennia, and it is quite crowded on land. Almost half of Europe makes holidays there on the sandy beaches and tours the cities, but there are also lots of from land inaccessible coastal areas, where yachts and day cruiser enjoy solitude. There is an Mediterranean Almanac published in France with all the marinas etc., The Imray pilot books are great too, but you need more than just the two mentioned. There is at least one for Spain and the Balearic island, one for France and Corsica, one for western Italy and Sardinia plus Sicily, one Adriatic Pilot for eastern Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, one for Greece and one for Turkey.

The coastal development differs from country to country, while Italy has almost a uninterrupted coastal building with one city seamlessly going to the next with endless beaches and grill like organized sun bathing areas, other countries have more concentrated inhibited areas and natural coast lines in between.

That said, there is a huge coastal line with thousends of bays and bathing areas and opportunities to anchor, also tons of marinas and harbors. The Caribbean is more an island world with long passages inbetween.

when it comes to marinas, prices are high for a 40ft monohull, you pay from 30€ to 100€ in marinas, in ports usually cheaper 15€ - 50€, water and power is often incuded, also showers. Marinas have Laundries, some even pools and restaurants, very often full service for yachts including travel lift. Cats are 50 .. 100% more expensive in Marinas, there are buoy fields too, that may cost a fee per night, usually 50% cheaper than the marina. Very expensive are tourist hot spots marinas. Diesel Fuel is about 1.20€ ... 2€ per liter, Gas is about 1.70€ ...2.30€ per liter, Propane is usually cheap (70ct/l), while CampingGaz Butane Bottles are really expensive.

Food is very individual and cannot be estimated. You can buy cheap in supermarkets or on regional markets anything and you can get ripped off in tourist markets down town or markets in tourist hot spots where you may 2..3 times the price of the same product, what you can buy in the supermarket 1 mile away. Sea side restaurants are often expensive, there are usually cheaper further down town, McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Burger King, KFC are in every larger city, but there is also a lot of street food everywhere around what is much cheaper and often much better too. There are also lots of foreign restaurants with running Sushi, Chinese, Libanese, Turkish, Greek, Italian food etc.

For a Pizza you pay 8..15€, a pasta meal is about 10..15€, fish and steaks are usually expensive, especially in the restaurants, so a plate can start at 20€ open upward. Croatia, Slovenia, Greece are great for eating out in shaded Taverns and open air gardens with lots of meat etc. Food is very regional and you may find many exciting dishes. Italy usually charges coperto, what means you pay for just sitting down and having fork and knife at the place 2€ or something. Food can get expensive in Italy, because you put it together, Starter, Main, Side dishes, and it adds up, usually not excessive plates in contrast to Grece, Croatia, Slovenia, where you order one thing and get a huge overloaded plate with tons of meat, french fries or rice, veggies etc.

The Med offer a lot to see, lots of history, art and life style. It disappoints in Wildlife in the sea, diving is often not worth it, but snorkeling is OK, especially if you go to a steep rocky coast. The winds in the Med can be very confusing, they turn 360° during the day and night, sometimes very calm for weeks, but can also become violent and nasty for some days - in contrast to steady trade winds in the Carib. More about it in the pilot books. So weather forecast studies are a must if you intent sailing instead of motoring. There are almost no tides in the Med, and about 1m tides in the northern Adriatic sea.

Medical services are great in the western developed countries. Sailing / Tourist season is usually May to October, but you can sail all year long, especially the southern areas and islands, they are frost-free, while the northern parts can have occasionally some snow. Winter mean temperatures are about 5-10°C, the summer can be very hot - from 20..35°C, more in the south. Most of the tourist hot spots and facilities are closed during the winter season - it is like visiting a different country then with empty streets, closed shops, restaurants etc...

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by chuckr

We have sailed both and if you look at our cost sheet you can see what it cost us in the Western and Eastern Carib and our time in the Med - these are not what you think it may cost or what people believe but ACTUAL data

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-213259.html

This takes me to a thread about a book. Does it work for anyone else?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

This takes me to a thread about a book. Does it work for anyone else?

For me, it goes to a thread about cruising costs.

[Dockhead]

I would have to agree with Kenomac, based on experience cruising both places, that the Caribbean is generally (not universally, but generally) more expensive and altogether more difficult (less accessible, harder to get parts and supplies, harder to get repairs if needed, harder to get good telecomms, etc etc etc) than the Eastern Med, which is generally cheaper and more civilized.


Whether that makes it better or not, however, is a matter of taste. But certainly -- the Aegean, both Greek and Turkish sides, are absolutely fabulous cruising grounds with fabulous, cheap food, abundant places to anchor (or moor up in municipal harbors for free), generally good transport infrastructure, good support infrastructure (especially on the Turkish side, with some of the best and cheapest boat repair services in the world), excellent telecommunications, and really everything you could want. Not crowded at all if you avoid the charter hotspots.



I also love the Caribbean, but it's an entirely different experience, and it's more expensive and difficult. If your taste runs to wild tropical nature, snorkeling, fishing, jungles -- then you might prefer the Carib despite the drawbacks. It's an awfully nice place to be in the winter.


You might also think about the Baltic, at least for the 4 months or so of the reasonable season. Head and shoulders better than either Med or Caribbean in my opinion, but an opinion shared by everyone I know who has cruised all of these places. And Sweden is one of the best places in the world to buy an older boat, as they keep them mostly in covered storage over the winter and use them only for a few months of the year. If I had six months, I might think about about starting in May in Sweden, and then gradually working my way through the Baltic to the European Atlantic coasts, ending up in the Bay of Biscay in the autumn. You might however get stuck in the English Channel, which is another one of the world's greatest cruising areas. North Brittany, the English West Country, wow. You actually need years to properly see all these places.



You'll just need to be careful with the Schengen rules, if you plan to do long-term cruising in European waters.

[Dolphin460]

I agree with Kenomac. The Med is by far the best cruising area especially from southern Italy all the way to Turkey. In past year we cruised the Crib, but for the last 12 years we been in the Med and lover it. I can always find quiet anchorages even in August.

[jmschmidt]

You can research marine fuel costs worldwide and up to date on the internet.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

For me, it goes to a thread about cruising costs.

Mobile app issue. Web site version works.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by chuckr

We have sailed both and if you look at our cost sheet you can see what it cost us in the Western and Eastern Carib and our time in the Med - these are not what you think it may cost or what people believe but ACTUAL data

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-213259.html

There are of course a lot of variables so its difficult to compare, but the W Carib came out to your lowest average monthly cost.

[CatNewBee]

The Med offers a lot of activities and opportunities, so you can spent a lot of money there, but you also can live a low profile when chosing the right place. There are countries with high taxes, cruising permits, tourist taxes etc, and there are countries that are free or cheap.

If you only provision and anchor most of the time, it will be cheap. If you stay at marinas, rent cars for excursions, eat out all the time in fancy restaurants and bars etc, you may blow your budget.On some beaches you can buy a Magnum bottle of Champagne for 10k $, so easy to spent if you feel so.

Boat insurance is also cheapest in the Med, Caribbean 2x more, Pacific 4x Oz / NZ about 2..3x at Pantaenius.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Boat insurance is also cheapest in the Med, Caribbean 2x more, Pacific 4x Oz / NZ about 2..3x at Pantaenius.

Really???? Ours did not change. We are with IMIS and obeyed the rule of getting out of the hurricane zone during hurricane season. If we had stayed in the zone our insurance would have been a lot higher and for good reason.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by chuckr

Really???? Ours did not change. We are with IMIS and obeyed the rule of getting out of the hurricane zone during hurricane season. If we had stayed in the zone our insurance would have been a lot higher and for good reason.

The offshore insurance market is a lot different today than a few years ago. Many less choices for coverage and much higher premiums. Underwriters getting out of the business, others laying off employees.

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

There are of course a lot of variables so its difficult to compare, but the W Carib came out to your lowest average monthly cost.

Yep you are so correct. And it was not because of boat maintenance issues. We had a haul out and had to replace our dripless shaft bearing. But the Western Carib is delightful and very inexpensive. We also did not limit our travel.. We traveled all through Guatemala and Panama and saw a lot of Belize. Of course the San Blas helped a lot on the expenses. But the Western Carib is a great place to cruise

[GS1]

Thanks a lot for all your replies!!

I clearly had the wrong info but I am happy everyone seems to agree on things, so this all seems clearer in my head.

Now, my question is: In the caribbean, I can easily spend 6 months from march to september. In the med, the weather is still cold in march. I have 2 toddllers and this might be a problem if its too cold.
I cant do med AND caribbean, so, any suggestion on how to go about spending 6 months in the med?? Need to be back home for september.

Thanks again everyone to help me clear out things this far!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by GS1

Thanks a lot for all your replies!!

I clearly had the wrong info but I am happy everyone seems to agree on things, so this all seems clearer in my head.

Now, my question is: In the caribbean, I can easily spend 6 months from march to september. In the med, the weather is still cold in march. I have 2 toddllers and this might be a problem if its too cold.
I cant do med AND caribbean, so, any suggestion on how to go about spending 6 months in the med?? Need to be back home for september.

Thanks again everyone to help me clear out things this far!

Fly into anywhere in Italy sometime in early May, then cruise the Med for six months. I stay every year until the end of October, the weather doesn’t turn to winter until mid November. Early May to November 1 has been my ongoing Med season. Summer weather doesn’t turn on until around mid May.