Budget cruising grounds: Sea of Cortez vs Florida/Bahamas?

[Liam Wald]

Originally Posted by zeehag

Originally Posted by coolboat30 View Post


speaking of false statements--try researching genders of folks against whom you complain before complaining.
i am a disabled senior female who has been 100 percent full time cruising mexico for the past nearly 5 yrs. only one week away from mexico fro dead brother trip of one week.
i realize this short time, only 5 yrs, of full time residence in mexico in my formosa 41 ketch is not nearly as much time as you have spent in your suppozedly 40 years of part time cruising, and you cannot know in 40 yrs of alleged part time cruising the research done by me in my years prior to sailing to cruise mexico.(1990-2011, and ongoing currently)
please 'splain me how a gringo expat who steals parts off engines in the name of repowering a stranded gringo cruiser is a good mechanic. and this is not an isolated area for that--all of the gringo mechanics i have heard of in mexico do this--is a standard to live down to.
each and every locale in which gringos cruise there are these ripoff gringos.
i learned about this one here when i was in ensenada, as he removed a friend's entire engine and had it sent inland, never to be seen again. talk with thrid day about this same jakass who is now in barra denavidad after having been banished from working in ensenada, banderas bay, and now makes turkeys and hams deep fried for christmas gatherings, wherein he spews forth that no one needs a perkins rebuilt, as they are obsolete, when he can come to your boat for his fee of 10,000 usd to initially inspect the situation, then charge you minimum 50,000usd for a 15000 usd engine, yanmar... for which location of parts here are impossible, and remove one significant yet small part so out in ocean, mebbe 50 miles out, you are stranded and need a return to this same port for buying that part of your own back to find he removed yet another one in its stead so you are bound to return to his thieving arms in gratitude for not dying at sea.
hell, i even heard so much bad stuff on the mazatlan duo from thieving hell before i ever left san diego on my way south. i avoided la paz, as it is a gringo enclave, not a place i desired to visit.
get real.
i laugh at your ignorance and lack of attention to a real issue in any cruiser locale, not merely mexico.
please tell me how fleecing gringos by elevations in prices among other issues experienced, as compared to the very competent and HONESTY locals who are accountable for their work, UNLIKE gringo expats who couldnot give a ratsass about the location of your demise??
please tell me again who is not educated on life in the place you allegedly cruise???
get real.
i have recently rebuilt my runaway diesel, named KA LUNK-- you might wish to search fro that thread, as it is a well used one.. and see what is the fact here. prices included.
misinformation abounds in expat communities, as expats donot mingle with locals. this i have observed and experienced.
i prefer GOOD and realistic work. NOT overpriced fleecing for no good reason other than a wallet needs fed.
let those make a living off the ones with unlimited funding, as they will not care about the fleecing, and will loyally report how good the fleecer was to them as he removed yet more parts. just as you are doing with your uneducated unresearched posting.
as for opportunities for mexicans to become certified in boat stuff--menbbe you should have visited some of mexico before statements of that nature. you DO realize there are opportunities you donot think about--mexico has much shipping an d sports boating opportunities, in factt, one isnot able ot own or run a business in mexiico without a mexican partner. many choose thieves as partners as thieves will not report the discrepancies as instructed by the gringo partner.
research better, so mebbe your platform is not disintigrated by someone who does not sit in bars drinking beer with the other boozers and loozers in expat-ville, scamming others from their old neighborhoods because they cannot manage to successfully accomplish positive repairing without some kind of gross theft.
and if you consider a certification from usa a good thing, mebbe you should remain there.
i consider 30 plus years on shrimper boats--not pangas, as a fair certification process. he is alive. his repairs did not cause loss at sea, as opposed to some others i can easily quote to you from facts on returns for repairs and types of repairs..witnessed in mazatlan. results of gringo repair men with allegedly good reputations, despite what i heard in san diego , which was from the distributors of the parts used in the repeat repairs.
there is a navgaation school in mazatlan run by a friend of mine, the port captain. might wanna figger out that mexico is actually more developed in many ways than is usa.
research and learn.
watch who you accuse of lack of accurate information.
you may find yourself the one lacking, as a direct result of conversation and experiences.
hell you cannot even speel my name correctly nor get my gender correct. how can you be in knowledge of what is going on anywhere???? rodlmffao.

btw--my eyes and ears are NOT what is disabled of me, nor is my brain. 9 i suyffer a very high iq and no tolerance of fools and stupidity.
ignorance may be educable, but stoopit is a choice. ....

Thank you for pointing out that you have a very high IQ.
Otherwise, based upon your post, I might never have guessed that to be the case.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Thank you for pointing out that you have a very high IQ.
Otherwise, based upon your post, I might never have guessed that to be the case.

education vs ignorance vs refusal to learn, the sum of which seems to equal those trolling on forums.
objectivity is divine, as is ability to understand, which is up there with forgiveness..
but then there is judgementalism, the king of the planet, and heart of ignorance, spawned by lack of objectivity...
have a great day. now, back to the subject at hand, .....

[exMaggieDrum]

Zeehag, if I had the experience you, or your friends, had with this gringo "mechanic" I would be very sour indeed. But that one example, and may be a couple of more you have had or know about, does not make every gringo that is down there a crook or bad tradesman. I did some work in PV for some others and I did very good work. If something wasn't right I fixed it for them gratis.

I knew a gringo (ex-Brits I think) couple (Tony & Ronnie) in Nuevo Vallarta who did mechanical and boat-sitting work there. They were honest and charged very fair prices and had sterling reputations. They would sub out or recommend good locals for work they didn't do for any one who asked. They sold me a brand new Honda generator for the same price I would have paid (on sale) in the US. I heard a couple of minor grumbles from someone about them but that was no more than you would here about someone in the US. Great people and very highly skilled. There was a new expat US young guy with good electronics experience who came down. He certainly knew his stuff and never overcharged anyone to my knowledge and I never heard a bad story about him. He married a local gal and is still there I think. There were others. I also knew some people who had bad work done by a gringo canvas maker there. So it just depends and is certainly not a rule.

There were also some most excellent locals who were always on the docks looking for work. Just as anywhere in the world, some of them were good and some of them were bad. I had a couple of these enterprising guys polish all my stainless for a good price, although higher than many other places. The problem was that they would use bad polish and would sometimes damage the gelcoat. But they were good guys and I felt like I got a reasonable deal even if it was less then perfect.

I left a junker car we bought in Guadalajara with the local assistant YC manager. Young guy with excellent English. I trusted him to sell my car and send me the money. He did. I expected him to keep some of the money but I never even asked him how much he sold it for - I trusted him that much. There were some local car dealers there that I would never trust.

I routinely went off the beaten path to get exotic parts for my boat or car from small shops with little or no English and I really can't remember a bad experience. The people were all very nice and honest and charged me the same prices they would charge the locals. I also found some local shops that would jack up their prices if they thought they could get away with it.

I do not believe the "locals are always honest and pure". In all my experiences, you find that some times and some times you don't. Mexico is no different. But I loved the local Mexican people, especially when you got away from the heavy tourist areas and where English was rare. But lots of Mexicans know English and I never held it against them. We had so many kindnesses shown us by locals. We were given rides all the time, without even asking. No English - just smiles, nods, and good feelings. We preferred the locals away from it all.

But there are some bad apple Mexicans that actually were pretty scary. I still felt as safe there, and even safer many times, in a little Mexican town than I did in most any American city downtown. I also was shaken down by Mexican cops more than once and we were severely mistreated by one local port captain. Others were nice, accommodating, wonderful officials. Some banks were downright rude as were other officials.

So it all depends. Your engine story was very bad. There are bad gringos like that. I could write a book on some of them - with their names, locations, and dates. There are scumbags everywhere. Our rule is to expect the best and more often than not we find it. But we are very careful in who we let on the boat, especially in the US and Canada. I have been ripped off here a couple of times. Not all Mexicans are saints nor all of them devils. But all in all wonderful honest people. We plan to go back if all works out.

[Liam Wald]

Originally Posted by zeehag

education vs ignorance vs refusal to learn, the sum of which seems to equal those trolling on forums.
objectivity is divine, as is ability to understand, which is up there with forgiveness..
but then there is judgementalism, the king of the planet, and heart of ignorance, spawned by lack of objectivity...
have a great day. now, back to the subject at hand, .....

Well now... that certainly clears things up.

[tomfl]

Have to point out Florida and the Bahamas are two different places and as a rule are very different in other ways. Even in the Keys parts are usually only a UPS/FedEx delivery away and in places like Miami/Tampa/Jacksonville they may well be in stock. While much of the labor in the three cities listed above is on the books it is also possible to find off the books labor at lower rates. Like most places in the world there are honest friendly folks and dishonest unfriendly folks. While there are some existing and proposed anchoring restrictions in Florida if you get away from the big cities there are places to anchor. In some ways the Keys and lower West Coast of Florida are different than anywhere else. A huge difference between the Bahamas and Florida is how pump outs are viewed by the government.

As a rule everything in the Bahamas is more expensive (except some fresh seafood). It is harder to get work done and often times long waits are required for what are normal parts, there is an import tax. Most everyone in the Bahamas speaks English. Outside places like Freeport and Nassau everyone seems very friendly. As an aside the best ten dollars you can spend in the Bahamas is going to a local church on Sunday and putting a sawbuck in the collection plate. You will have made a lot of friends as long as you are wearing clothes while you do this. The diving in the Bahamas is great, as is the fishing.

See other threads for cruising Cuba which is easy to get to but does have some potential downsides.

I have only been to Mexico to dive, flying there. There are good and bad points. Mexico does have a lot more geographical diversity, but you may need transportation other than a boat to visit it. As others have mentioned most folks there do not speak English, but it is quite possible to get along if that is your only language.

I often see folks discuss cruising costs have disagreements because they have different definitions of cruising. It is quite possible to spend months at a time cruising in the Bahamas and never set foot in a store where you can spend money. If you have stocked up on rice, beans, and good fishing and diving gear you are basically cruising for free. If you are eating ashore and paying for it, possibly along with drinks, it can add up quickly. There are cheaper places to eat in Mexico than in the Bahamas.

My take is both places are great destinations. Given that you are now looking at a monohull I would probably say the Sea of Cortez as the water in general is deeper while in the Bahamas you will be on the banks most of the time and the water can get skinny. I do agree it is easier to get a boat from the US to the Bahamas than from the US to the Sea of Cortez.

Bottom line you can't go wrong either place. Your best bet may be to get your boat first and determine where to cruise based on location of the boat.

[zeehag]

maggiedrum---i didnt bring any mechanic on board for 6 months after ka lunk ka lunked. i searched for those whose reputations had not fled before them as shotgun pellets

i knew mazatlan was a bad option, until i met mario gonzalez, who is still my mazatlan facilitator, yet diesel repairman there is is still unknown to me. there is NOT one in maz who speaks english and not a thief. no, not rick,not bob. bobbby boy ran away witjh opmoney rodlmffao. raffe has proven his same ways.
banderas bay has yards i did not like due to unreasonable services for unreasonable rates. overpriced. not good service. i watched these folks in each locatiion firsthand. . i rigger peter in the platinum la cruz boatyard, is awesome. love him. reasonable, smart, creative. good guy.
i did not go into vallarta except to survey a vagabond 47 for sale in pv marina somewhere, and to get my fm3 in nuevo, at inm, and into industrial center area for 6 peso tacos and materials for use in repairing boat. nor did i hear any bad words about the alleged repair folks who practice their banderas bay skills. they were not booted out of any previious ports, therefore, no info.
rotten robbie is volvo, and good. met him in person at a neighbors boat here in barra marina a coupla years back
my haulout will be in mazatlan in shrimper yards on rails. the work will be being done by accountable mexican locals only. they only been doing their jobs without cessation for over 30 years. therefore, they cannot possibly know what they are doing.
just because you donot know the national language in a regiion you cruise, or say you cruise, does not mean those words from the mouths of those whose tongues you donot understand are from people inferior in training to those in usa who practice disposable lifestyles, replete with the accoutrements inclusive of failure to know how to properly prolong life of anything in which they come into contact for daily use.
you cannot claim to be able to repair all which i have witnessed correctly repaired here by locals.
gringos say"impossible" locals get it done and done well.

there is available resonably priced transportation to inland regions-- buses now donot have goats or even dogs inside, nor cats. nope. plush with wifi and movies. everywhere inmexico. more thana one bus line. yes there is still chicken bus availability for those desiring that.

as both the caribbean and west coastal mexico are comparable in many ways, except the desert environment of soc, island spacing, and pricing of foodstuffs, i recommend cruising all of west coast mexico before ruling it out.
there are vast differences in not only scenery but climate and weather patterns all thru mexico.
also sail caribbean.
donot limit self to either / or situations.

[Celestialsailor]

Just to clear up the definition of cruising. Cruising is, for the most part, sailing port to port or across an Ocean or two to exotic destinations. My vessel is in Guaymas where I am installing my new (to me) Spectra water maker, installing a magnetron for "El Radar", changing thru-hulls around, removing layers of bottom paint...and so on. I am not currently cruising but preparing for an ocean crossing. Nor is one cruising parked under a blue plastic tarp for months and years at a time.
Just thought I would clear that up...

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Just to clear up the definition of cruising.

SNIP

Cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations. There, fixed that for you.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Cruising is repairing boats in exotic locations. There, fixed that for you.

According to some... ...There are yards full of said people.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Just to clear up the definition of cruising. Cruising is, for the most part, sailing port to port or across an Ocean or two to exotic destinations. My vessel is in Guaymas where I am installing my new (to me) Spectra water maker, installing a magnetron for "El Radar", changing thru-hulls around, removing layers of bottom paint...and so on. I am not currently cruising but preparing for an ocean crossing. Nor is one cruising parked under a blue plastic tarp for months and years at a time.
Just thought I would clear that up...

exactly. i do know some of those.they generally donot make it this far south.
i currently am repairing gung ho for a travel session for further impending repairs.
most of the houses here have blue plstic tarps as there are no longer roofs on many of the colimilla houses.. much blue tarpage is used in cabo blanco marina.. rodl
i manage to find my way into anchorages and around quite nicely, as i repair and replace that which has been undone as well as that which requires replacement by wear and tear.
it is good that mexico has so many locations to repair, each specializing in its own specialty and reputation.
many cruising west coast mexico have not met nor will they meet, as the area is so great and climate so varied.
seems those who prefer soc do so for the companionship of others of same beliefs. the more adventurous and accepting of change come south farther and enjoy tropical greenery and foods.
completely different than the desert mexico y'all seem to thrive in. much better climate and much better variety. cheaper summer rates and food pricing also, in many cases.
go native. there is a reason for that.

[Dockhead]

I've cruised (a lot) in Florida and the Carib, and I've cruised in the Sea of Cortez.

Mexico is far more interesting.

Florida has some gorgeous spots, but it is expensive, REALLY expensive, and there's practically nothing wild left there. And between the gorgeous spots a lot of boring nothing.

If you go into the Caribbean, keep going. It gets more interesting, the further East you go.

[JPA Cate]

It has been a long time since we cruised in Mexico, and in our stays were in the Golfo de California and south only as far as Melaque and Barra de Navidad, so our experience is both limited and out of date. We speak minimal Spanish. We visited twice.

We found the Mexican people we met to be friendly; there was not the bad vibes people report from the Caribbean. We dealt with mechanics, and in our experience, they were dedicated to fixing things, keeping them working. The comment above relative to high output alternators was true in '89, for us, as well, but they really understood outboard motors.

One time, when someone's dinghy went adrift in La Paz, BCS, a local fisherman towed it back and kept searching till he found the boat it belonged to. Another time, a friend of ours lost his wallet with $600 USD somewhere between the border and La Paz. When he arrived, the next morning there was ham radio traffic for him: the guy who found it had gone to the work of getting the phone number of someone in the States whose name was in the wallet who was a ham, and organized the return of the wallet. And who refused to accept a reward, as it turned out. Feeling indebted, the American went and bought a bunch of clothes for the man's children, anyway, and his benefactor accepted that. These examples, though dated, spoke to me of a higher level of honesty than I would expect in the US.

While in the Golfo de California, we had the most amazing spear fishing. We swam every day, twice (hunting for lunch and for supper). We could find isolated anchorages or share anchorages with people we made friends with. Plenty of variety. The saltwater is very salty there, I hadn't realized it varies in salinity, and the experience is different from land cruising. It was a constant wonderment to me to be in the water, and surrounded by desert. But, it is cold in La Paz in December. One year we had Christmas in La Paz, the other, in Nuevo Vallarta. The north winds had enough bite that we used our heater.

We have not been to the Bahamas, so cannot write a "compare and contrast."

Ann

[model 10]

Arguably the Gold Coast is the most attractive and interesting cruising ground in MX. We met a good number of boats ranging that far south each year. Some even going all the way back up to the US.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

SNIP

Florida has some gorgeous spots, but it is expensive, REALLY expensive, and there's practically nothing wild left there.

SNIP

Saying "there's practically nothing wild left there" is just wrong and there is no way to sugar coat it.

Most of the West Coast outside of Tampa Bay and the condo infested cities to the South is just as it was a hundred years ago or more. Same for the back country and most of what is West of Key West.

You obviously have not cruised a lot in Florida.

[chuckr]

It is a bit old for where you want to sail but we put 6 years of cost data out there - actually every penny we had coming in and going out we accounted for
so you can see what we spent

and we did the east side of Mexico down to Colombia -- and also 2 years in the Bahamas

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-141717.html