Your government at work...

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

What kind of instrument is that? I’ve never seen one before.

A french hurdy gurdy.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Montanan

A bit of a touch and go during the next few days. Let''s hope for not a repeat of Katrina.

Hopefully more touch than go, with help no doubt by the early warnings from NOAA which allowed more time for people to prepare (hopefully).

[redsky49]

"The landscape of Southeast Louisiana was built upon a coastal delta created by the Mississippi River during the past 8,000 years as sea level rise due to glacial melting in the last ice age slowed. Before humans intervened, natural subsidence was offset by a combination of sediments deposited during Mississippi River floods and organic soil produced from the decay of wetland vegetation. Construction of flood control levees to protect the Gulf Coast economy and local populations interrupted the sediment supply, leading to a net increase in land subsidence."

This is the critical component for New Orleans.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Exile

Hopefully more touch than go, with help no doubt by the early warnings from NOAA which allowed more time for people to prepare (hopefully).

Didn't locate a thumbs crossed emoji so went with the

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

New Orleans is an example of somewhere that ought to have already been abandoned, but wasn’t and likely won’t be either.
But it’s a matter of time, this storm may not even amount to much, but it’s enough to be a real threat, a real storm in these conditions would I guess wipe it out.

They just spent an ill-conceived 15 billion dollars on a lock and levee system supposedly ringing the greater metropolitan area with a minimum 20 foot levee, so don't think that's gonna happen. I kind of (sometimes) feel the same way, but where do you stop? Miami's worse, lots of NYC is as well.

Ill-conceived because they should have just taken out the levees that actually cause the problem, i.e. the ones that direct the river south of New Orleans, and keep the wind driven water that would normally just wash over the marsh to the south and the east of the city pent up in the 'devils triangle' thus formed (by the gulf to the southeast, the gulf coast to the north and the east levee of the river), allowing the water to build to dangerous levels on the east and northeast facing coast, and to flow into lakes St. Catherine, Pontchartrain and Maurepas, where, especially for a slow moving storm, the wind will blow it around and eventually and successively build water heights to levels that top or breach levees, which is exactly what happened in Katrina. New Orleans and Slidell weren't flooded until after the storm passed; Pass Christian, Bay St. Louis, Waveland, and Pearlington coastal areas were virtually wiped away from the wind driven water levels trapped by the same east-bank, lower Mississippi River levee.

The flooding this morning was caused by local 7-9" per hour rain (at the gauges, there were likely isolated locally heavier rates). There were also very intense lightning rates (that I don't remember the quoted 'strike per minute or hour' of), and several waterspouts/minor tornadoes; all standard tropical depression/storm/hurricane fare.

The first rain/thunderstorm I experienced from the system just hit whilst typing this post, the power also went out for about ten minutes.

Too early to tell before the depression or storm even forms; there seems to have been several different circulation centers already, when and if it settles down, given that we had no winter this year, three weeks of 92-95+ weather, and a reasonably consistent recent history of rapid or relatively rapid intensification, it'd not surprise me that, if a cyclone forms, it turns out to at least a 3 at landfall.

Not to wish ill will on anyone, and I certainly hope I'm wrong.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

NOLA has survived an amazingly long time for such a vunerable location.

It has, however I’d say it’s more vulnerable now, and it’s vulnerability is increasing.
If you believe in the Oceans water level is increasing, and if you believe in subsidence, and both I’d assume are easily measured so tough to argue, then Narlens isn’t going to survive long term, you can continue to dump taxpayers money into it, and allow the suffering to continue, or accept reality and move.

No, I don’t think that will happen soon, but it’s eventually going to have to.
I don’t know about New York and Miami, are they under sea level?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Montanan

A french hurdy gurdy.

Fascinating, I never new about it, and it’s 1,000 yr old instrument
http://www.hurdygurdy.org/pdfs/hghistory.pdf

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It has, however I’d say it’s more vulnerable now, and it’s vulnerability is increasing.
If you believe in the Oceans water level is increasing, and if you believe in subsidence, and both I’d assume are easily measured so tough to argue, then Narlens isn’t going to survive long term, you can continue to dump taxpayers money into it, and allow the suffering to continue, or accept reality and move.

No, I don’t think that will happen soon, but it’s eventually going to have to.
I don’t know about New York and Miami, are they under sea level?

From Scientific American, April 2019.

"The $14 billion network of levees and floodwalls that was built to protect greater New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was a seemingly invincible bulwark against flooding.

But now, 11 months after the Army Corps of Engineers completed one of the largest public works projects in world history, the agency says the system will stop providing adequate protection in as little as four years because of rising sea levels and shrinking levees.

The growing vulnerability of the New Orleans area is forcing the Army Corps to begin assessing repair work, including raising hundreds of miles of levees and floodwalls that form a meandering earth and concrete fortress around the city and its adjacent suburbs.

“These systems that maybe were protecting us before are no longer going to be able to protect us without adjustments,” said Emily Vuxton, policy director of the Coalition to Restore Coastal Louisiana, an environmental group. She said repair costs could be “hundreds of millions” of dollars, with 75% paid by federal taxpayers.

“I think this work is necessary. We have to protect the population of New Orleans,” Vuxton said.

The protection system was built over a decade and finished last May when the Army Corps completed a final component that involves pumps.

The agency’s projection that the system will “no longer provide [required] risk reduction as early as 2023” illustrates the rapidly changing conditions being experienced both globally as sea levels rise faster than expected and locally as erosion wipes out protective barrier islands and marshlands in southeastern Louisiana.

Of primary concern are the earthen levees that form the backbone of the 350-mile maze of protection that includes concrete floodwalls, pump stations and gated structures, Army Corps spokesman Matthew Roe said.

The levees are losing height as they start to settle—a natural phenomenon that is exacerbated by the soft soils in southern Louisiana. Some floodwalls are built into the levees.

But “the global incidence of sea level rise” also is contributing to the inadequacy of the levees, the Army Corps said in the April 2 Federal Register notice announcing that it is studying system improvements.

“It’s happening a little bit faster than our projections in 2007,” Roe said.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

...I don’t know about New York and Miami, are they under sea level?

Assuming that that isn't a rhetorical question, parts of NYC and Miami are, and parts of Nola are not.

The 'question' leaves out virtually all of the important considerations; I've started a response, provided laziness doesn't get the better of me, I'll finish and post it later...

[mabowers]

Now Tropical Storm Barry

[CFS Klopas]

Government 1, internet blowhard 0

[belizesailor]

Bizarre storm...remants could end up back in Tennesse where it started. Does not look good for NOLA, big rainfall forecast:

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/gra...inqpf#contents

[Bullshooter]

I live there, and just missed getting my truck flooded. I left today to wait for the storm to pass, in Slidell. I recently retired but my career provided in-depth knowledge of flooding in Louisiana. Yes New Orleans is vulnerable due to its low elevation. However, Hurricane Sandy flooded New York; places that have not had any flooding in decades have been in the news a lot lately. Texas, Missouri, etc. Should we just evacuate all areas that flood? Records for rainfall are being broken on a regular basis. The Mississippi River has been at flood stage for months of this year. I do not know of the river being this high in July, ever, but did not bother to look it up. I do know that the Bonnet Carre' Spillway was opened twice this year, the first time in history, and it is still open.

Alaska has just had a heat wave with 90 degree weather in Anchorage. Sea level rise is a measurable thing. These extremes are becoming more frequent and climate change has to be the connection. Put your head in the sand and say it is the liberal news media or a Chinese hoax, but any objective view will concede the point. I just read where the most vulnerable locations in the U.S. from projected sea level rise include Miami, New England, and others. I am trying to decide where I should move to get away from the threat of flooding. I thought about my friend's land on the plateau in Tennessee. But last year, a tornado just missed his new house by a few hundred feet and tore up a lot of large trees.

To those who say that taxpayer money should not be wasted on New Orleans, just move - where do you live?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

. I am trying to decide where I should move to get away from the threat of flooding. I thought about my friend's land on the plateau in Tennessee.

Maybe a boat? Seems pretty on topic. 😉

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by mabowers

Now Tropical Storm Barry

A bit of a technical issue, just trying to understand why it is called a "tropical" storm when it has not originated in nor is presently in the tropics. It is in the northern Gulf of Mexico south of Louisiana outside of the tropics.

The climate of that region is rather tropical in that it is nearly a frost-free zone, especially at this time of year and with a high temperature of the water.

A tropical storm is defined as: A tropical cyclone with strong winds of over 39 miles (63 kilometers) per hour but less than 74 mph - hurricane intensity.

I realize that hurricane, typhoon and cyclone differ only as to spelling and what part of the globe they are located.

So what is the correct name for a cyclonic type storm with wind speed of over 39 mph and below 74 mph that is located outside of the tropics?