Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 8 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 16-05-2013, 05:24   #361
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
while reading accounts of heavy weather handling and great tales of derring do are all very well. You really have to read comprehensively around teh subject to gain an insight into different techniques and approaches, Then you have to try and apply that 'received' knowledge to your circumstances and situations ( thats the hard bit).

Contemporary accounts from the Pardys, Alard coles , Steve Dashew and our own Evans Starzinger etc give a very wide range of techniques and styles. But Evans 30 second summary is the best summary Ive seen yet.
I have to concur (with your entire post)
And boat designs are much more varied these days and thus one (older) size no longer fits all!
Nair the less, my earlier point was that one shouldn't discredit our forebears just 'cause they aint no longer with us . They were doing what many of us can no longer do!
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 05:43   #362
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Nair the less, my earlier point was that one shouldn't discredit our forebears just 'cause they aint no longer with us . They were doing what many of us can no longer do!
No one should not discredit such stuff, but in the context of history , time moves on and knowledge builds and becomes more widely disseminated and particular. Pre war leisure sailing was a tiny tiny activity and quite a hazardous one to boot. While such stories are 'interesting' they do not in general translate well to modern boats and the systems on them.

Its like an expert in ploughing by horse, advising a person with a computerised tractor and plough , how to plough. The advise is respected but most of it isnt relevant.!!

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 05:44   #363
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,213
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
I have to concur (with your entire post)
And boat designs are much more varied these days and thus one (older) size no longer fits all!
Nair the less, my earlier point was that one shouldn't discredit our forebears just 'cause they aint no longer with us . They were doing what many of us can no longer do!
Arrrrr... +1A
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 06:12   #364
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,775
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Storm Sailing Advice

also do not forget that many of the situations and solutions of which folks before us have written contain info for use without engines...makes a big difference in how one treats an impending disturbance in weather....different things are done with engines than what pardeys wrote about without engines.....
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 06:45   #365
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
pirate Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
No one should ... discredit such stuff, but in the context of history , time moves on and knowledge builds and becomes more widely disseminated and particular. Pre war leisure sailing was a tiny tiny activity and quite a hazardous one to boot. While such stories are 'interesting' they do not in general translate well to modern boats and the systems on them. Dave
I hadn't thought this through as you and others have, Dave. All good points. In another recent thread, Nick on Jedi posted an eye-opening sales video for the Sundeer line. That casual traveling at 20 kts + stuff to weather was pretty impressive and doesn't resemble the kind of sailing I do. No question that modern boats and electronics have changed the sailing world. Thank you.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 07:20   #366
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,941
Images: 1
Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
I have to concur (with your entire post)
And boat designs are much more varied these days and thus one (older) size no longer fits all!
Nair the less, my earlier point was that one shouldn't discredit our forebears just 'cause they aint no longer with us . They were doing what many of us can no longer do!
Techniques and euipment have changed radically over the past 40 years. None the less, we should realize we stand on the shoulders of giants. Remember that even as late as the 1970's, navigating was still a sextant. Weather forecasting was poor and virtually nonexistent once at sea.

For most sailing at that time - you needed to be totally self-reliant (no Epirb).

I'm quite happy with all the modern equipment and also modern boat design, but I happily acknowledge the unpayable debt we owe to those that went down to the sea in ships before us
__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 07:25   #367
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 151
Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Very little has been said on this thread regarding handling multihulls in severe wave conditions. Are there any catamaran experts following this thread who can comment?

What sort of breaking waves can cruising catamarans handle?

Is there a minimum size for a cruising catamaran to safely handle Southern Ocean cruising?

Does the discussion of the use of drogues and para-anchors equally apply to multihulls?

How about fore-reaching, heaving to, stern on, and lying ahull?
__________________
ImaginaryNumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 08:11   #368
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,213
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Storm Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber View Post
Very little has been said on this thread regarding handling multihulls in severe wave conditions. Are there any catamaran experts following this thread who can comment?

What sort of breaking waves can cruising catamarans handle?

Is there a minimum size for a cruising catamaran to safely handle Southern Ocean cruising?

Does the discussion of the use of drogues and para-anchors equally apply to multihulls?

How about fore-reaching, heaving to, stern on, and lying ahull?
I have sailed Cat's and do like them however.. they are a different ball game.. much more subject to wind having greater windage and less resistance as opposed to the mono...
I've run before a F7, gusting 8 with just a hankie on a Catalac 900 surfing at 18kts... Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee Scary...
Another Catalac I got hit by a sudden 50kt E gale S of Trafalgar... in 10 minutes the sea went from 1m to 4m as the funnel whipped everything up.. was motor sailing in a F5 ESE before then tacking toward Africa... no time as such to turn.. seemed one step behind and only able to re-act it was so sudden and no visible warning.. beautiful evening... only option was both engines on as there was no way to heave to in those short sharp seas... left the main up deep reefed and used the engines to steer... we'd go over one wave and through the next... around 1am my crew came up to tell me there was water in the hulls... so I say "No worries... they're deep V-hulls"..
"No.." she says.. "Its ankle deep.."
and it was... so I get her pumping and start crabbing towards Barbate on the Spanish coast... then the manual pumps broke.. one after the other.. so put out a call to Tarifa Radio explaining the situation and would it be possible to have the LB on stand-by just in case.. they said they'd send her out anyway to guide us through the tuna nets which would be impossible to see in those conditions..
We got in.. next morning discovered a large crack running hull to hull under the fore deck.. can only presume she came down on something or the prolonged pounding she was taking proved to much for a 40yr old boat... no reflection on the boat.. a few mono's and some big cats got battered as well.
I have run before a F8 on a Tiki 26 with full main and genny... that was awesome.. especially when overtaking a freighter at 6kts more than him... but I was in my 30's, on my boat and nutz...
I think I'd go for the sea anchor or drogue.. whichever I deemed best for the sea conditions.. tho' neither would be much use in some sea's... then its down to luck
Lying a-hull is OK till there's breaking waves that can chuck a hull in the air.. lotta windage under a cat.. don't need much help once the momentums started.. 40kts can do it..
In some conditions I'll run before quite happily.
Will add... have never experienced anything as bad as in mono's..
Not advice... just what I've done in the past.. and been lucky

__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2013, 11:25   #369
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
I was delivering a Lagoon 55 Catamaran (I think that was the size/name) in '92/'93 (has it been that long that i cant remember precise details - ugggh).

We were hit by a Tehuantepecer off of the Gulfo of Tehuantepec, on our way to Panama via Coasta Rica, in '93. It was a famously bad year for this type weather.

We were having some hydraulic issues with the duel steering stations, that we eventually addressed in Puerto Corinto. Nicuragua andd solved in Puntaarenas, Costa Rica, but at the time were causing grief.

We got absouletly pasted and it was somewhat funny, with decades of retrospection, on how we dealt with it amd how we allowed ourselves to get into it.

So I guess the main question, based on the post previous, is realice relorts of storm strategy for multi hulls.

I cant give you strategy only anecdotes.

The weather came up quickly and as we were near the continental shelf, so did the sea state.

We tossed out a parachute anchor in f9 conditons, gusting to f10.

Some notes;

1. We tied tubing to the forward cleats on the bow via a seperate small stuff line through the same tubing as the bridle for the parachute
2. It was this line that chaffed and had to be replaced over a 36 hour period - one time
3. We contiuend the line from the forward deck cleats to snatch blocks on the shrouds to the main winchs.
4. Felt uncomfortable but safe - but this was a short duration high intensity storm and near coastal
5. When we got in to Puntarenas we saw some seriously battered boats - our success may be wholly related to proximity to weather centre versus any skill

...didnt have same weather access as today.

Just my limited multi bad weather experience
__________________

__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.