Storm Sailing Advice

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

That's what they said about North Korea .

all mouth and no action , them lads , it seems

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

all mouth and no action , them lads , it seems

Thread drift
Lets hope they stay that way.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Probably Rescue Tape or its equivalent.

Rescue Tape is wonderful stuff, but expensive. It is silicone-based, handles temperature extremes, is about one inch wide (or wider?), sticks to itself, and lasts just about forever. It has a "peeler strip" that keeps the tape from sticking to itself on the roll.

The self-amalgamating tape that was originally mentioned is probably a different product. Electrician's self-amalgamating tape is a black rubbery non-silicone tape. It isn't as rugged as Rescue Tape, and doesn't stretch or conform quite as well. It degrades in sunlight after a few years. It also has a peeler strip. It is significantly less expensive than Rescue Tape. Here's a link to one version of this type of tape: http://www.morrisproducts.com/wire-m...ating-tape.asp There are many variations.

I carry both products on board, and use them both.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Jean Claud van damm, Stephen Segal and Michel Roux rolled into one man!!!!

dave

More like Twiggy or a praying mantis in reality... everytime I step across a storm drain the only thing stopping me falling through the grille is my nose... not saying its big... but its said hello to everyone in the room before I arrive...

[downunder]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Truth be told.. I detest pasta... trouble is most owners seem to live on the damn stuff.. pasta with pesto, pasta with grated cheese, instant noodles... insipid tasteless crap.. rather go hungry.
Is it any wonder owner assists are low on my list of favourite jobs..
I cook Chauser's, Coc'o'Vin's, Bourginuons, Strogonoffs, Curries not pre-mix... if there's an oven.. Bread, Nan, Roasts...
Occasionally the odd Carbonara is acceptable as a quickie ready in 20 meal.. but very occasionally..

Like your menu.

Try this Brazillian seafood Stew from the catamaran Impi's blog. Fantastic - gets better as it ages.

http://eat-impi.blogspot.com.au/2013...food-stew.html

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think one of the big mistakes less experinced sailors make when weathering a storm is not carrying enough sail,and going bare poles long before it is nessasary.

i love the cutter rig and being able to carry 2 hanked storm jibs and a main with a 3rd reef ,providing 3"blades",that can be lowered and raised easily.

keeping some way on the vessel will also provide stability and greatly improve comfort levels inside.
bearing off a few degrees if you have sea room when the strongest winds come through will also make a noticable difference when all hell is breaking out.

good hot food is also a great morale booster,

as is a galley that you can cook in in any weather, i favour ones layed out in a "U" shape fore and aft, making it impossible to be thrown out of when cooking in rough conditions.

Just to clarify we are talking about Storm Conditions and not just Gale Conditions?
Beaufort Scales (Wind Speed)

If so, with 9-11m seas and winds up to 63 knots I would not be flying 3 sails.

Instead I would want to limit any foredeck exposure before that.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Just to clarify we are talking about Storm Conditions and not just Gale Conditions?
Beaufort Scales (Wind Speed)

If so, with 9-11m seas and winds up to 63 knots I would not be flying 3 sails.

Instead I would want to limit any foredeck exposure before that.

from my experince,unless you are sailing high lattitudes gale force winds under 60 knots are far more common,i was not suggesting carrying 3 sails in storm force wind speeds,the suggestion was to keep some way on the boat rather than lying dead in the water.

the benefit of having 3 very small sails is that you can progressively reduce sail area,and keep a degree of stability as the frontal system passes over you.

generally once the winds merit bare poles im drifting downwind with a long loop of line out the back for the 12-24hours it takes for the strongest winds to pass.

as a very experinced sailor said to me when i first started crossing oceans
,"a boat is like a bicycle,you need some speed otherwise you fall over"
i have allways used this principle and it has never failed me in over 100 000 miles

[Andrew Troup]

I seem to recall further up the thread someone defined survival storms as conditions where you were no longer able to head towards your desired destination.

I wasn't comfortable with that: to me a storm (in offshore parlance) was always thought to be a long-duration event in open waters where the wind blew at storm force for sufficiently long for the seas to develop to an unpleasantly high proportion of their full potential.

(Assuming the winds are 'just' storm force: if they're up in the 11/12 region or higher, to me it would qualify as a storm before the seas have finished building, the category being reached once they get to the size you'd associate with a long-duration F10.
Obviously this is not a precise transition, but some events are clearly storms by this yardstick and some are clearly not.
It's worth remembering that the stronger the sustained wind, the longer it takes for the wave height potential to be fully developed. Which is probably a Good Thing)

A "survival" storm, to me, applies where some additional factor, such as ocean current, upwelling, bottom contours or what have you, makes the seas (even if only occasionally) unavoidably dangerous to a well found, medium sized cruising sailboat.

I think the other definition is a bit too much like 'grade inflation': to me, being unable to head in the desired direction is inconvenient, rather than a survival issue, in most contexts.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

I seem to recall further up the thread someone defined survival storms as conditions where you were no longer able to head towards your desired destination.

I wasn't comfortable with that: to me a storm (in offshore parlance) was always thought to be a long-duration event in open waters where the wind blew at storm force for sufficiently long for the seas to develop to an unpleasantly high proportion of their full potential.

(Assuming the winds are 'just' storm force: if they're up in the 11/12 region or higher, to me it would qualify as a storm before the seas have finished building, the category being reached once they get to the size you'd associate with a long-duration F10.
Obviously this is not a precise transition, but some events are clearly storms by this yardstick and some are clearly not.
It's worth remembering that the stronger the sustained wind, the longer it takes for the wave height potential to be fully developed. Which is probably a Good Thing)

A "survival" storm, to me, applies where some additional factor, such as ocean current, upwelling, bottom contours or what have you, makes the seas (even if only occasionally) unavoidably dangerous to a well found, medium sized cruising sailboat.

I think the other definition is a bit too much like 'grade inflation': to me, being unable to head in the desired direction is inconvenient, rather than a survival issue, in most contexts.

I wouldn't agree Andrew. Absolute wind speeds have little meaning as it all depends on the boat and its circumstances. Furthermore often the worst storms are coastal, with added complications of nearby ' land'. I coined the phrase you mentioned and I beleive its a reasonable definition. , F9 on a continental shelf in a small boat might be determined to be survival for some .

Dave

[Andrew Troup]

If you're talking about conditions in the context of that particular boat, sure thing. "Survival conditions" in a sailing dinghy might be F6, but that does not make it a "survival storm".

The weather does not care what size the boats are, and we're talking about the weather when we use that term.

F9 on a continental shelf could easily be unsurvivable even for a well found boat under some conditions (and the nearest thing I've seen to unsurvivable conditions were nowhere near F9), but the challenges, and the tactics required will not be the same as for a deep sea survival storm.


If we're discussing generic tactics for a survival storm, we need to be talking about the same sort of event.

- - - -

The misuse and dilution of the term "storm" in Australia may have cost lives.

In the '98 Hobart, several family and friends remembered competitors as having said to them, before the start, not to worry about the forecasted storm force winds.

"At least they're not talking about gale force. We'll be fine"

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by garrettt

Hey, I'm a small boat (really small) racer, but I'd like to get into around-the-world cruising. What's everyone's best advice, or places to get advice about sailing through storms. I understand the basics, upwind, downwind, etc. I just have no idea what I'd do in the middle of the ocean when a storm happens. Everything from all the gear you need to what to prepare for, to what kind of watches should be in rotation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Not doubting your abilities Atoll, as we have both been there…done that… but the OP’s question was quite specific….STORM… middle of the Ocean…..Beaufort scale describes the conditions…

Agree, keeping a relatively small sailing yacht moving while it is still safe on deck is preferable, but minimum windage and speed to navigate Storm conditions does not require 3 sails.

My guess is by then you are probably short-handed so I would be in KISS mode.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by atoll

from my experince,unless you are sailing high lattitudes gale force winds under 60 knots are far more common,i was not suggesting carrying 3 sails in storm force wind speeds,the suggestion was to keep some way on the boat rather than lying dead in the water.

the benefit of having 3 very small sails is that you can progressively reduce sail area,and keep a degree of stability as the frontal system passes over you.

generally once the winds merit bare poles im drifting downwind with a long loop of line out the back for the 12-24hours it takes for the strongest winds to pass.

as a very experinced sailor said to me when i first started crossing oceans
,"a boat is like a bicycle,you need some speed otherwise you fall over"
i have allways used this principle and it has never failed me in over 100 000 miles

My personal hope is that since the title is "storm sailing advice," it won't be redefined to only "survival storm sailing advice." I've learned a lot from this thread but "survival storms" aren't nearly as common as "severe storms" or "big blows."

For me, it doesn't have to be a "survival storm" for me to go off course and do what the the boat can handle best, partly because of my level of experience and partly because of the characteristics of my boat. I hope we'll stay open to it all.

[boatman61]

From where I sit...
Every Gal/Guy who's been through anything over 40 knots... and sea's over up to and over 6 metres is right...
they must be...
they did not abandon or lose their boats... and they're here to post their experiences and tactic's... its worked for us... so far
However.. anyone who's reading this with hopes of learning from us there's one other thing to take into consideration...
each of us have different personalities...
don't take any one opinion as verbatim...
Extract from each what you feel fits your personality best...
we've all used the same or very similar tactic's at some time or other..
There are times for my 'Manic Grin' as a good friend calls it... and then there's my 'Buga this... I'm taking the night off and getting warm' mode...
Most last longer than me....

[sabray]

Seems to me we are mixing coastal lee shore sailing and offshore long passage. Coastal US you might get a real nasty blow that lasts 20 minutes. Means you need to survive 20 Violent minutes. If you are 2 weeks into a long crossing and a major low develops you might like having a para anchor or drogue setup. Roger Taylor reported using his Jordan series twice.once he retrieved it because he did not like the control loss another time it broke free. Both times he reported significant stabilizing. Maybe that allowed him some rest before he got back to sailing. Slicing reported that he used a sea anchor when needing a rest and it worked well. As a tool for staying off a lee shore I thing it is very questionable.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sabray

Seems to me we are mixing coastal lee shore sailing and offshore long passage. Coastal US you might get a real nasty blow that lasts 20 minutes. Means you need to survive 20 Violent minutes. If you are 2 weeks into a long crossing and a major low develops you might like having a para anchor or drogue setup. Roger Taylor reported using his Jordan series twice.once he retrieved it because he did not like the control loss another time it broke free. Both times he reported significant stabilizing. Maybe that allowed him some rest before he got back to sailing. Slicing reported that he used a sea anchor when needing a rest and it worked well. As a tool for staying off a lee shore I thing it is very questionable.

I think it would depend on the lee shore... if it was somewhere like W Tasmania I was being blown on I'd try anything on board.. and that would include hanging a jib off the stern with fenders and chain... to slow me down and hopefully keep me off till the blow passed and I could regain control..
However somewhere like the Galician coast of N Spain where there are ria's one can take a crazy sleigh ride into for peace and shelter I've tacked hove to before a NW'ly for days slowly falling back but controlling my drift to an acceptable point where I can break and run for shelter...
Manic Grin Time