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Old 10-11-2017, 13:49   #391
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Re: Ocean Concerns

Yes good point.

Point of demand, final consumption should carry the cost of externalities.

Maybe rather than "luxury" goods being taxed higher, or "value added", consumption taxes should be carbon-weighted
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Old 10-11-2017, 18:56   #392
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Re: Ocean Concerns

Not so sure how this statement from the Wikipedia article matches with your understanding of the period...

"The entire Quaternary Period, starting 2.58 Ma, is referred to as an ice age because at least one permanent large ice sheet—the Antarctic ice sheet—has existed continuously. "


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Originally Posted by Heave2 View Post
This post is already 26 pages long, so forgive me for not reading every page, but there is nothing we can do about rising sea levels or "global warming". The problem is, we live in an ice age. What? Nobody in the media talks about this? We are currently in the Quaternary glaciation, an ice age that has lasted for about the last 12,000 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_glaciation

You see, ice on our planets poles isn't normal for our planet, and for the vast majority of it's 4.6 billion year existence, we had no ice caps. Now we appear to be coming out of this ice age, whether it is man made or not is irrelevant and isn't worth fighting about. The planet goes through these cycles, and nothing we can do will stop it, short of possibly a nuclear winter of course.

I say we sit back, crack open a cold one, and go sailing whenever we can, rising sea levels means more water!
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Old 10-11-2017, 19:05   #393
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Re: Ocean Concerns

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Not we are *going to* miss out

We already *are missing out* on huge opportunities to be a world leader in tech innovation and implementation of green energy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/scien...nment-41894354
OK John -go do your thing! Don't want you to 'miss out" and deprive the world of your green energy and innovation-- get off that boaty and get to work to save us.
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Old 10-11-2017, 19:10   #394
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Re: Ocean Concerns

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According to Calif. Gov. Jerry Brown who apparently thinks he knows more than US auto cos., and never fails to get some Trump-bashing in of course. If electric cars are so good for us, then why is he talking so much about imposing higher taxes & subsidies to make it happen?

As for the Chinese, they sorely need some help getting their emissions under control, and having so many coal plants will make it easier for people to plug in all those new electric cars for overnight recharging. Not sure the net effect will be a significant reduction in CO2 emissions, but it should make a lot of people here in the US believe that the Chinese are actually doing something positive.
Yep- China is currently opening 2 coal fired plants a month-India opening 1 1/4 plants a month Both are planning to double this rate by 200% in next 3 years..... Some Climate Agreement!
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Old 10-11-2017, 19:14   #395
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Re: Ocean Concerns

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Not so sure how this statement from the Wikipedia article matches with your understanding of the period...

"The entire Quaternary Period, starting 2.58 Ma, is referred to as an ice age because at least one permanent large ice sheet—the Antarctic ice sheet—has existed continuously. "
I say good post!!! and you are right- this is why there is lots of Oil way under the artic areas- put there before current Ice Age when these areas were hot and humid and tropical seas!!
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Old 10-11-2017, 19:19   #396
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Re: Ocean Concerns

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Most 5 year-olds are good at picking up on whatever their parents want to teach them.

We generally agree on corporate welfare.

You understand that generating electricity still mostly relies on energy from burning fossil fuels, right? Except maybe in Germany. I'll read your articles, albeit with a grain of salt given their source. Do you ever read from sources that make you feel uncomfortable? Just curious.
Change Germany to France,which gets 90% of its electricity from Nuclear Germany uses Russian Methane Gas for 85% of its Electricity
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Old 10-11-2017, 19:27   #397
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Re: Ocean Concerns

Germany currently generates*35%*of its power from renewables
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:21   #398
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Re: Ocean Concerns

5% Chance of ‘Catastrophic’ Global Warming by Century’s End | Times of San Diego

A new study by Scripps Institution of Oceanography finds a 5 percent chance that rapid global warming will be “catastrophic” or worse for the human race.

“When we say 5 percent-probability high-impact event, people may dismiss it as small but it is equivalent to a one-in-20 chance the plane you are about to board will crash,” said Ramanathan. “We would never get on that plane with a one-in-20 chance of it coming down but we are willing to send our children and grandchildren on that plane.”

From the Scripps' study:

Quote:
The risk assessment stems from the objective stated in the 2015 Paris Agreement regarding climate change that society keep average global temperatures “well below” a 2°C (3.6°F) increase from what they were before the Industrial Revolution. Even if that objective is met, a global temperature increase of 1.5°C (2.7°F) is still categorized as “dangerous,” meaning it could create substantial damage to human and natural systems. A temperature increase greater than 3°C (5.4°F) could lead to what the researchers term “catastrophic” effects, and an increase greater than 5°C (9°F) could lead to “unknown” consequences which they describe as beyond catastrophic including potentially existential threats. The specter of existential threats is raised to reflect the grave risks to human health and species extinction from warming beyond 5°C, which has not been experienced for at least the past 20 million years.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:11   #399
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Re: Ocean Concerns

GeoLeo,
Nice to see you have at least some concerns....
Quote:
Yep- China is currently opening 2 coal fired plants a month-India opening 1 1/4 plants a month Both are planning to double this rate by 200% in next 3 years..... Some Climate Agreement!
BTW I don't think you understood my point...Heav stated:

"You see, ice on our planets poles isn't normal for our planet, and for the vast majority of it's 4.6 billion year existence, we had no ice caps."

Which is an incorrect statement, based on statements in the document he is referring to.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:07   #400
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Re: Ocean Concerns

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I'm sorry but the USA doesn't get to move it's manufacturing to China for cheap labor and import and sell those goods cheaply in the US, then claim that it's Chinese carbon because it was burnt in China. The US is unquestionably the world's largest carbon polluter.
It would unquestionably be easier for China than the US to impose carbon taxes which would take into account all the "climate & social costs" associated with their mfg. goods for the US and much of the rest of the world. They don't do so because it would raise the cost of their goods and they would lose the economic boom they have enjoyed for so many of their people. Developed nations move their mfg. to developing nations because the latter offers cheaper mfg. costs. Like most such decisions, this has both pros & cons. As China modernizes and becomes more developed, mfg. might move somewhere else and in fact already has.

But as been pointed out again & again and should be obvious, the climate doesn't care where CO2 and other emissions are coming from and why. If your agenda was really about the climate rather than politics, you wouldn't care either.
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Old 11-11-2017, 13:28   #401
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Re: Ocean Concerns

..since the Chinese government owns most all of the basic industries in China -a carbon tax would simply be taxing themselves and have no effect whatsoever, in China all of the steel, aluminum, power plants, oil and gas, airlines, ports, shipbuilders are owned by the government , many by the army--plus all of the land in china is owned by the government --whenever any of these companies loses money the government simply gives them another "loan ,which does not have to be paid back..........it is therefore impossible for any non Chinese company to compete with them. get it?
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Old 11-11-2017, 23:15   #402
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Re: Ocean Concerns

Gentle people

I have long lost the ability to reconcile this threads contents with Cruising. It has degenerated into politics and other non sailing related areas.

I will close the thread pending admin review. We will discuss the relevance of the topic and the direction it has taken and make a decision whether to continue with it or close it permanently.

besties.
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