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Old 15-09-2017, 12:41   #1
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Jose may threaten the Northeast US

I'll be watching closely...

TROPICAL STORM JOSE
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Old 15-09-2017, 12:55   #2
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

Could be a lot of folks calling for haul-outs on Monday.
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Old 15-09-2017, 13:16   #3
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

The yards near me didn't fare well in Sandy... My yacht club had 6' of water where they store the boats and many floated off their stands.

I'll probably strip the boat bare and keep her on the mooring. The other option would be to run up the Hudson, I guess. Fingers crossed...
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Old 15-09-2017, 14:28   #4
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
I'll probably strip the boat bare and keep her on the mooring. The other option would be to run up the Hudson, I guess. Fingers crossed...
Best of luck to you. Hopefully, you won't need it.

How familiar are you with this mooring? Sure it's long enough to deal with storm surge? I've no firsthand experience with this, but I've heard of buoyancy popping up short, heavy moorings in storm surge.
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Old 15-09-2017, 14:42   #5
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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Originally Posted by atmartin View Post
Best of luck to you. Hopefully, you won't need it.

How familiar are you with this mooring? Sure it's long enough to deal with storm surge? I've no firsthand experience with this, but I've heard of buoyancy popping up short, heavy moorings in storm surge.
Thanks. Good luck to you as well. Let's hope this thing turns East and fizzles.

I know I've got two 400lb mushrooms down there. All new equipment within the past year. Not sure the length on my chain. I will check.

This may be a stupid question, but has anyone ever removed their mooring ball to eliminate the vertical pull on the anchors in a storm surge?
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Old 15-09-2017, 14:54   #6
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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This may be a stupid question, but has anyone ever removed their mooring ball to eliminate the vertical pull on the anchors in a storm surge?
Yes

https://www.practical-sailor.com/new...s-10438-1.html

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Know Your Ground Tackle

Is your mooring really a 1000 pound mushroom with 3/4 " chain? It may be worth hiring a diver to find out, preferably before a storm threatens. Likewise, all shackles, chains, and mooring pennants should be examined at least once a season to make sure they are in good shape. If the condition of any component of the system is questionable, replace it. If your insurance adjuster sees a corroded through piece of chain or a mooring pennant that is badly worn, he may well be reluctant to approve your claim in case of loss.

In crowded harbors, permanent moorings may lack adequate scope to deal with the high tides associated with storm conditions. It may be possible to increase scope for a storm by replacing or lengthening the mooring pennant. Just as with an anchor, the holding power of a permanent mooring is increased by additional scope.

Some moorings are equipped with large, inflatable surface buoys. The positive flotation of these buoys may reduce the holding power of the mooring in extreme high tides, so it may be worth removing the buoy before a storm; just donít forget to replace it before casting off the mooring pennant after the storm is over.
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Old 15-09-2017, 15:00   #7
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

Hah. OK then! Thanks. Feel like I may have had that idea bouncing around in my head from that PS article.
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Old 15-09-2017, 15:35   #8
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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Originally Posted by atmartin View Post
From the article:

"Some moorings are equipped with large, inflatable surface buoys. The positive flotation of these buoys may reduce the holding power of the mooring in extreme high tides, so it may be worth removing the buoy before a storm."

This strikes me as conjecture and so much filler for the article. If anything I would expect a mooring buoy to act as a shock absorber, taking up slack in the chain during wave trains. It certainly does not have enough buoyancy to impede the holding power of the mooring itself, provided it's adequately sized.

That said, it may serve to reduce apparent scope as it lifts the chain higher...but that will only be at lulls when it's not under tension.
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Old 15-09-2017, 16:23   #9
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
This strikes me as conjecture and so much filler for the article. If anything I would expect a mooring buoy to act as a shock absorber, taking up slack in the chain during wave trains. It certainly does not have enough buoyancy to impede the holding power of the mooring itself, provided it's adequately sized.
I think it may be accurate. We used to float 1,000 to 1,500 pound mooring blocks out using a 16' skiff. Underwater they way much less, and air is very buoyant. Add to that the pulling force of the wind on the vessel, and the vessel's own buoyancy. I imagine it might make a difference.
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Old 15-09-2017, 16:32   #10
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

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This strikes me as conjecture and so much filler for the article. If anything I would expect a mooring buoy to act as a shock absorber, taking up slack in the chain during wave trains. It certainly does not have enough buoyancy to impede the holding power of the mooring itself, provided it's adequately sized.

That said, it may serve to reduce apparent scope as it lifts the chain higher...but that will only be at lulls when it's not under tension.
You may be right (about the filler), but I think that over 40 knots, depending on fetch, the chain is going to be tight even between gusts. It certainly is for me with 7 or 10:1 scope (not at a mooring) in gales. Having a buoy with a couple hundred pounds of buoyancy in between the mushrooms and the boat is going to make the effective scope less.

I would personally be more concerned with the buoyancy of the boat yanking out the mooring if there's too little scope due to the surge. Especially if there's enough fetch to build up 2-3'+ waves
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Old 16-09-2017, 05:05   #11
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

Quote:
“... The positive flotation of these buoys may reduce the holding power of the mooring in extreme high tides, so it may be worth removing the buoy before a storm ...”
Chapman’s recommends two sections of galvanized chain for a permanent mooring: a heavier, primary chain and a lighter, secondary chain. The primary (ground) chain lies on the bottom. Its length should be 1-1/2 times maximum water depth. The secondary (riding) chain, is connected to the ground chain with a galvanized shackle or swivel. It's usually half the size of the ground chain and equal in length to maximum water depth. The heavier chain is not used for the entire run so that the mooring buoy does not have to support an excessive amount of weight.
In which case, if the tide/surge equals more than 1-1/2 times the design maximum water depth, the buoy would tend to submerge & lift the mooring.
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Old 18-09-2017, 11:49   #12
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

Thank you all for the input. We're heading down to the boat tonight to strip the canvas, remove the solar panels, etc and get her into Nor'easter mode. Doesn't look like NYC is going to get nailed, but I'm expecting gusts of 40-50kts.
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Old 18-09-2017, 12:08   #13
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Re: Jose may threaten the Northeast US

SAIL had a recent article about snubbers and the lack of elasticity in chain. Might be a good read now.
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