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Old 01-10-2013, 09:34   #31
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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Why not celebrate that a person in this country can still do something like this. Its good to have the freedom to go out and try to kill yourself without having big brother tell you what is safe. Many sailing stories of high adventure are actually about marginal sailors that did not plan well and prepare well for the trip. Wasn't but a few hours ago someone was plucked off their boat in the PNW by the Coast Guard in what most well prepared sailors would have easily sailed through...maybe that fellow will write a best seller for the dumbed down lives most people have today.
But this guy wasn't trying to kill himself. It's more like God will take care of "us" even though I have never sailed and know little about boat construction. When is it ok to include innocent family members in a misguided dream?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:34   #32
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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I read a book on Hitler and I didn't come away as sympathetic. Just like SkipMacs feelings about the Manson film. I was just concerned that this one was going to be too preachy and biased in that way. I'll bet it'll be fair to good. Or better.
Godwin's law in action again.

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:47   #33
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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Well I guess technically this complies with Godwin's Law since the name was used, but in this case, no one called anyone a Nazi or Hitler but used a Hitler comparison as an example of excess so not quite the typical, name calling example.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:26   #34
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

Family members/misguided dream How about all the Jehovah Witness's not allowing any blood transfusions to a dieing child, God looks after them too but nobody seems to get too excited. Whats wrong with a world where delusional people are free to kill themselves or put their family in harms way, hell the West would have never opened up without this type of attitude.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:59   #35
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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Family members/misguided dream How about all the Jehovah Witness's not allowing any blood transfusions to a dieing child, God looks after them too but nobody seems to get too excited. Whats wrong with a world where delusional people are free to kill themselves or put their family in harms way, hell the West would have never opened up without this type of attitude.
Hi Robert,

Read the posts carefully. I don't recall a single person saying these folks should have been prevented from doing what they did, except perhaps if it risked the life of an innocent, uninformed bystander. Doesn't mean those people can't be criticized. In fact, you yourself just called them delusional. Someone else called them idiots. Same difference to me.

And by the way, people do get excited about families whose religious beliefs prohibit medical care for their children. I see reports about parents being taken to court on this issue on a regular basis. Just this year there was a case where at least one child died and the parents were charged in the death.
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Old 01-10-2013, 13:15   #36
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

Don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing anybody or their ideas. I'm simply pointing out that I personally don't find anything wrong with people who want to do less than brilliant things and sometimes pay a heck of a price for it. I share many of your thoughts actually but my base belief system is that we should encourage everyone to choose freedom over safety. As to endangering family members...I have met a few sailors that seem to do it on a regular basis.
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Old 01-10-2013, 14:31   #37
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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Hi Robert,

except perhaps if it risked the life of an innocent, uninformed bystander.
Exactly
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Old 01-10-2013, 15:01   #38
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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As to endangering family members...I have met a few sailors that seem to do it on a regular basis.
And that is a very touchy issue. Where does one draw that line? Just getting in a car a driving to the store is a risk but how much is too risky?

We spent six months cruising the Bahamas and north Caribbean with my daughter when she was 6-12 months. There are some that might think that was endangering a child.

Tough question with no easy answer.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:12   #39
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

I'm not sure it's such a fine line. I mean...if a guy has sailed smaller boats for a few years and maybe spent a year or so banging on wooden boats...fine...he has minimal requirements. The real challenge is to look at your family. Do they truly understand what the journey entails or is it "blind faith" instead. Are they following their dream or yours. I have no right to put anyone knowingly in danger. In 2008 I was caught in effects of a tropical storm that disabled my boat to the extent where I could have lashed things together or turn around and run 200+ miles to port. The crew wanted to go on. Ultimately I alone am responsible for their safety, I turned around.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:59   #40
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

Nope I did not "break" Godwins law.

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis often referred to as "playing the Hitler card".

Never called anyone a Nazi or compared them to Hitler. I just said I read a book. Actually I think this movie might be a hoot and that's a good thing.

I did look for that stoopid video where Hitler was ranting and raving about catamarans. I couldn't find it. Any help? It's the one everybody does a version on.
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Old 01-10-2013, 23:43   #41
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

Yes Skipmac.. there would be many people question you for having such a young child aboard an offshore boat for that length of time, I would not be one of them but today our society has been so dumbed down that the average person is so risk adverse its not even funny. They have allowed Government combined with the media to "look after" all of us and decide what is safe or not. I am totally against this and its reinforced as I travel 3rd world countries throughout the world. I guess the most stupid of us need help in making decisions sometimes but its not long after and it becomes the law. It won't be long before you'll be putting a baby helmet on your child before they to go out and play.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:04   #42
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

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I did look for that stoopid video where Hitler was ranting and raving about catamarans. I couldn't find it. Any help? It's the one everybody does a version on.
Now that could be very funny. Do post the link if you find it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:05   #43
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

My take from this thread is someone called Charles Manson made a doco about an Adolf Hitler who built a boat called Rawfaith, who shouldnt have been allowed to, since it sank (.. the Bismark?)

umm, I think i'll duck over to sailinganarchy and cheer on Hotrod & viking. I have a movie offer for 'em..
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:27   #44
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

I would like to see the documentary. There was a great documentary about Donald Crowhurst (Deep Water), and obviously Crowhurst isn't someone we should be emulating!

By the way, here's a "Hitler" video about the America's Cup: .
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:19   #45
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Re: RawFaith: A Family Saga Documentary

What exactly were Hitler and Charles Manson doing aboard RawFaith anyway?

I have not seen the documentary but if it illustrates the folly of the family and boat it could be very informative and maybe cause people who are not safety conscious to rethink their plans.

Reminds me of the story where the guy that is drowning in the sea decides to put his faith in God alone...he prays and asks God to save him. He ignores the life jacket that goes floating by, and when a boat comes by he tells them he needs no help, God will save him. He ignores th helicopter and waves it off as well. He drowns. When he meets God he is upset and says, " God, I trusted in you....why did you not save me?" God replies....." You idiot, I sent a life preserver, a boat and a helicopter for you and you refused them all!
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