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Old 14-05-2016, 12:07   #16
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

What about just old fashion sense. I doubt someone going over the side will be holding a cell phone? A tether makes a lot more sense. My way of thinking would be an LED lite to replace the old grey D cell lite on life jackets, would make more sense.
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Old 14-05-2016, 12:13   #17
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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What about just old fashion sense. I doubt someone going over the side will be holding a cell phone? A tether makes a lot more sense. My way of thinking would be an LED lite to replace the old grey D cell lite on life jackets, would make more sense.
This is why you can easily tuck PanPan in your life jacket or attach it anywhere else. A LED is great for visibility but won't alarm the person in the cabin you fell overboard.


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Old 14-05-2016, 12:31   #18
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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This is why you can easily tuck PanPan in your life jacket or attach it anywhere else. A LED is great for visibility but won't alarm the person in the cabin you fell overboard.


I see your point. It was depicted as a cell phone. Might should be tethered to the jacket. And one on watch shouldn't be out of the cockpit without someone else on deck.
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Old 14-05-2016, 13:07   #19
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

Excellent idea and the price is very reasonable for the function the device serves. From the images it appears that the device could be worn on a cord like a dog tag and never be removed (except when showering or bathing of course) Good work mate.


Instead of just an alarm us single handers need a solution to the boat running away problem.
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Old 14-05-2016, 13:14   #20
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

Much needed system.

Using consumer phone devices for safety critical systems has a myriad of issues. However dedicated marine instrumentation is not much better.

Dedicated robust sensors for humans and then an alarm based on the absence of data is a logical design. Multiple listeners including wifi access points, other smart phones and rf sniffers will add to robustness and minimise false positives.

When we eventually see a global guaranteed delivery and performance network for IoT, seperate to the current IPV4 internet, then we will solve this problem with dedicated sensors, effectors and firmware. That system is decades away I suspect.

Good luck with this system. I'm interested.

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Old 14-05-2016, 13:39   #21
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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Excellent idea and the price is very reasonable for the function the device serves. From the images it appears that the device could be worn on a cord like a dog tag and never be removed (except when showering or bathing of course) Good work mate.


Instead of just an alarm us single handers need a solution to the boat running away problem.
He Raymond,

Thanks for kind words, I'm flattered.
The system is indeed aimed at a crew of two or more.
We do have a function on the drawing table that would allow the app to talk to your plotter and auto pilot over Seatalk. Maybe then we can also help out the single handers
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Old 14-05-2016, 18:16   #22
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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He Snowpetrel,

We have actually experimented with this approach.
(would have saved us a lot of hardware headaches)
Unfortunately there's 2 problems:
1. The bluetooth signal of a smartphone is often to weak to cover the entire boat, this would lead to many false alarms during regular sailing.
2. If you phone is in the water it's probably toast. Even if you kept it in a water proof bag, it would be out the bluetooth range in seconds, unable to send the GPS signal.
Thanks for the reply. I think thats why the no hardware system will work for you! Market it as a LITE version with limitations. Ie cockpit only. If people like it they will by a few reasonably priced tags to up the range and usability of the system.

With regard to the position info, it should still work as long as you are in cell phone coverage and the phone is out of the water and working? It would use mobile data rather than bluetooth for this.

I do like the concept, and have used similar older systems offshore.

Why bluetooth and not wifi?
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Old 15-05-2016, 01:31   #23
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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Thanks for the reply. I think thats why the no hardware system will work for you! Market it as a LITE version with limitations. Ie cockpit only. If people like it they will by a few reasonably priced tags to up the range and usability of the system.

With regard to the position info, it should still work as long as you are in cell phone coverage and the phone is out of the water and working? It would use mobile data rather than bluetooth for this.

I do like the concept, and have used similar older systems offshore.

Why bluetooth and not wifi?
We thought about this approach but we figured the risk was high since the first experience with the product would be a bad one. (due to the false alarms)

It's Bluetooth because the bluetooth 4 (or bluetooth low energy) requires very little power as the name implies. This means the beacon can have an operational battery life of about 3 years.

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Old 15-05-2016, 03:04   #24
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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Originally Posted by jason-panpan View Post
He Raymond,



Thanks for kind words, I'm flattered.

The system is indeed aimed at a crew of two or more.

We do have a function on the drawing table that would allow the app to talk to your plotter and auto pilot over Seatalk. Maybe then we can also help out the single handers

Although I am always clipped in, this would be another layer of protection. I use my iPhone at night as an alarm, setting the timer for 30 minutes to keep me from falling (too) asleep. So it is always with me.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
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Old 15-05-2016, 03:51   #25
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

it looks right, i have just signed up for the beta.
since a lot of us dont leave their phones along maybe a version of alarm sound being activated if a group member phone is going out of BT range is something worth thinking of.
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Old 15-05-2016, 04:01   #26
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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it looks right, i have just signed up for the beta.
since a lot of us dont leave their phones along maybe a version of alarm sound being activated if a group member phone is going out of BT range is something worth thinking of.
Awesome! Glad to have you on board.
Maybe I did not understand you correctly but while the concept of phone to phone is great there are some caveats.
Earlier in this topic I explained why there would be some problems when using the phone as a beacon.

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Old 15-05-2016, 04:15   #27
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

what i meant is if all phones on board are connected with blue tooth network using your app and one of them is going out of the range of the BT network it will sound the alarm and show location on everybody else's phones and the boat's computer.
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Old 15-05-2016, 04:23   #28
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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what i meant is if all phones on board are connected with blue tooth network using your app and one of them is going out of the range of the BT network it will sound the alarm and show location on everybody else's phones and the boat's computer.
Ah!
Yes, all the phones that run the app can work in tandem. If one PanPan beacon moves out of range all phones will sound the alarm.

Jason.

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Old 15-05-2016, 04:30   #29
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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Originally Posted by jason-panpan View Post
We thought about this approach but we figured the risk was high since the first experience with the product would be a bad one. (due to the false alarms)

It's Bluetooth because the bluetooth 4 (or bluetooth low energy) requires very little power as the name implies. This means the beacon can have an operational battery life of about 3 years.
Thanks Jason, its great to have the logic spelled out for me, given the bad experiences I have had with conecting anything bluetooth its good to hear the advantages. 3 year battery life sounds great.

The older MOB system I used needed regular charging, and they were much bulkier having a big cord/antenna that went around your neck. The pan pan ones look very easy to wear.

Is there anyway the software could be configured to send a text message to someone ashore if there is a MOB? Useful for singlehanding inshore, within cellphone coverage. Also another add on would be a bluetooth engine kill option to shutdown the engine if you have a MOB.

Ideally someway to disconect an autopilot or windvane if sailing would be a lifesaver for solo sailers while sailing or shorthanded stuff with crew asleep below, where it could take a minute or so for them to get on deck.

Looks like a clever product.
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Old 15-05-2016, 07:17   #30
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Re: PanPan - a virtual lifeline on your smartphone

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Thanks Jason, its great to have the logic spelled out for me, given the bad experiences I have had with conecting anything bluetooth its good to hear the advantages. 3 year battery life sounds great.

The older MOB system I used needed regular charging, and they were much bulkier having a big cord/antenna that went around your neck. The pan pan ones look very easy to wear.

Is there anyway the software could be configured to send a text message to someone ashore if there is a MOB? Useful for singlehanding inshore, within cellphone coverage. Also another add on would be a bluetooth engine kill option to shutdown the engine if you have a MOB.

Ideally someway to disconect an autopilot or windvane if sailing would be a lifesaver for solo sailers while sailing or shorthanded stuff with crew asleep below, where it could take a minute or so for them to get on deck.

Looks like a clever product.
You are most welcome.

The sms is a great idea that would not be to hard to implement with just software. The kill switch is also a nice idea but would require an extra physical device. We are definitely going to consider this.

There are already plans to integrate seatalk so we can talk to compatible chartplotters and autopilots.

Thanks again for the great feedback!

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