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Old 14-08-2014, 00:15   #16
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

OK, so there is two. My first google page found 2 HR's with delamination problems. Does that prove they are not the quality you think they are? Certainly I will not go and tell on the internet that HR's are not good quality because of 1 lazy internet search. It will take a lot of first-hand experience before I will go and make comments on someone's boat, especially if I haven't even seen it.


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Old 14-08-2014, 03:14   #17
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

The original Baltics were designed by C&C and were built with cored hulls, not sure if they still are but they were for many years. Very performance orientated and at the time was considered every bit as well built as the Swans. Pretty near all boats have cored decks so I can't see why thats an issue in Baltics. High quality boats simply age better and its not unusual to find 30 year old Baltics and Swans that are in beautiful condition.
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Old 14-08-2014, 03:39   #18
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

I, too, love the older Swans... the S&S classics. But in the years after those designs, the oh so high and mighty Swans had osmosis issues of heroic proportions. So, lets not bash Baltics for their decks...

Great boats both, and well above the average production boat.

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Old 14-08-2014, 07:53   #19
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

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Originally Posted by JazzyO View Post
OK, so there is two. My first google page found 2 HR's with delamination problems. Does that prove they are not the quality you think they are? Certainly I will not go and tell on the internet that HR's are not good quality because of 1 lazy internet search. It will take a lot of first-hand experience before I will go and make comments on someone's boat, especially if I haven't even seen it.


Onno
Ok...This is childish...You have a great boat. Your boat is faster and better than a Swan. Happy now?
"It will take a lot of first-hand experience before I will go and make comments on someone's boat, especially if I haven't even seen it"
Yes...Much like you did when comparing your boat to the Swan.
"Certainly my Baltic 38DP can give her a run for her money".
Both boats have there merits and like Jim Cate said both great boats but all boats have some problems due to the element they're in.
The OP was trying to sell a boat, not open a debate for to to participate in....sail on.
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Old 14-08-2014, 08:01   #20
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

As was mentioned above Baltic was started by Swan employees who broke away from the company, mostly it seems because PG Johansson had a falling out with Ingmar Granholm of Nautor -PG wanted to build lighter boats with balsa cored hulls, and Granholm would't let him. The solid glass hull vs. cored hull debate has been played out here and other places, so I won't get into it, but I think the engineering has proven to be sound.

I think calling Baltics and Swans 'sister ships' is incorrect, as Baltic was clearly striving for something different. There are several Swan clones (“Swan-a-bes” like Avance Yachts) from the era, but Baltic is not one of them.

Anyway, I think this Swan vs. Baltic debate started out with a misaligned comparison, that is, the S&S Swan 38 (phrf 120, 19k lbs.) vs. the Doug Peterson Baltic 38 (phrf 92, 14k lbs.)-very much different boats from different eras. A better comparison would be the S&S Swans of the 70's vs. the early C&C Baltics. I have been on examples of both and I can tell you that the Swans have a much nicer interior than the Baltics. I have not sailed on a C&C Baltic, but I have been on similar C&C designs of the era (under ballasted, rule beating, flat-bottom pounders), and I can assure you I would rather be on an S&S boat.

I will agree however that Baltic really hit their stride with the Doug Peterson 38 and 42. I have been on a Baltic 38. It is a great boat, inside and out. I feel the Swans of that era (the Ron Holland and early Frers boats) sort of struggled to find their place, as Holland was winning races in his light and fast designs, and Nautor was trying to reproduce them (and slowing them down in the process) with their stubborn methods (heavy, solid glass hull, beefy rigs, etc.). I do, however, have to give the edge to Swan here when it comes to the teak decks. Swan eliminated “top-screwing” in the early 80's, having developed a method of gluing them down with only epoxy. Baltic was a few years behind in the process – all of the decks on the 38's and 42's I have seen may be set in epoxy, but they are also top-screwed, which will someday be a massive, massive headache.

I would be interested to hear of anyone's experience with what I would call the “third wave” of Swans and Baltics; that is, the Frers designed Swans of the 90s vs. the Judel-Vroliik Baltics. They seem to be more matured designs at the end of the IOR era, and I don't have any experience sailing on either.
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Old 14-08-2014, 08:07   #21
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

Excellent post. Thanx Yukon.
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Old 14-08-2014, 08:12   #22
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Here she is.
Lovely indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Berg View Post
Anybody should be thrilled to sail with either... Right... <grin>
Exactly.


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Old 05-10-2014, 05:42   #23
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Re: Nautor Swan 38

I have one of the Baltic 42 DP's build under licence in Cape town by Cenmarine in 1987 . Must say the real definition of a blue water boat - a Centurion Tank .
Did the Cape to Rio race on it beginning of the year and also did the Southern ocean return trip from Rio to Capetown - no worse for wear .

As per all boats - you need to keep up with the maintenance and that is the key to a save boat - Had a extensive overhaul last year - keel, P bracket etc. and now the PERKINS 4108 is being refurbed - but otherwise a solid world cruiser - Happy with it .

Any other DP's arround?
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