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Old 10-06-2014, 13:47   #1
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Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

We're looking to replace the lip rail around the freezer enclosure on an Antares 44i (see photo). Have any of you done that already and have a resource either on the east coast of the USA or in the Caribbean or Bahamas?
Thanks!
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Old 10-06-2014, 14:13   #2
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Can you resend - I didn't see a picture.
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Old 10-06-2014, 14:58   #3
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Here is the photo of the delamination of the freezer cabinet lip.
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Old 10-06-2014, 15:07   #4
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Just simply refinish it?
I've fixed worse with a drop of Birchwood Caseys tru-oil on a finger and rubbed it in, took 30 sec.
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Old 10-06-2014, 15:16   #5
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

thanks A64pilot.

Your solution sounds very good idea. I'm curious - did you apply the oil on a polyester finished veneer?

We tried to get a professional woodworker who has worked on these boats to do the job and he refused saying he couldn't do it (his reason was the type of finish - he said polyester, applied with many coats, one on top of the next without sanding, then the final finish was achieved with motor oil and bronze or steel wool) He said he wouldn't start because he'd have to sand it to do the work and once he starts, it's impossible to stop and turns into a "monster."

That's why I'm reaching out to the community to find another solution.

Thanks!
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Old 10-06-2014, 15:21   #6
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Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Not real sure, and on what you have it would be a patch, but it would keep water out of the wood.
I just can't see replacing that wood for what looks like a minor cosmetic issue.
Tru-oil is oil of course, I suspect largely boiled linseed oil, but I believe it does have some kind of varnish as well, it builds easily and to a high gloss. It's a gunstock finish of course, but that means it's tough, takes abuse and is easily repaired. I have finished a small piece of furniture or two with it in the past.
Your woodworker sounds like he knows his business and I think he passed on the job as maybe you would be expecting it to be exactly like new and perfectly match the rest, and that would be tough.
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Old 10-06-2014, 16:55   #7
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Not real sure, and on what you have it would be a patch, but it would keep water out of the wood.
I just can't see replacing that wood for what looks like a minor cosmetic issue.
Tru-oil is oil of course, I suspect largely boiled linseed oil, but I believe it does have some kind of varnish as well, it builds easily and to a high gloss. It's a gunstock finish of course, but that means it's tough, takes abuse and is easily repaired. I have finished a small piece of furniture or two with it in the past.
Your woodworker sounds like he knows his business and I think he passed on the job as maybe you would be expecting it to be exactly like new and perfectly match the rest, and that would be tough.
Yes, the woodworker knows his business. He said he passed because he had tried to do similar work before and he hadn't made himself or the owners happy, so maybe it was that too.

He could be wrong, but he said he was almost positive the finish was polyester and that he can't just sand it out and revarnish it or put oil on it. He said once he starts sanding, there is no way to stop. Once he goes through one layer, the whole finish delaminates and he has to go all the way from molding to molding or corner to corner and replaced the whole section of veneer, which he said would be very expensive.

We're also not sure we can do nothing though. The woodworker also said that over time, this finish has a tendency to delaminate and that grows rapidly unless you completely re-veneer.

So, it's quite a challenge and we're hoping someone with another 2010 or 2011 Antares has a good idea or a different experienced woodworker to solve this, cost-effectively.
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Old 10-06-2014, 18:12   #8
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

We used epithanes satin and were please with the result on Indigo (hull#21)
What hull number is yours - is it an Argentine or Canadian boat - the finishes are slightly different
Paul
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Old 20-06-2014, 21:27   #9
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllesBelles View Post
Here is the photo of the delamination of the freezer cabinet lip.
Yes, this is a polyester finish. Your woodworker is correct in his assessment.
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Old 21-06-2014, 00:08   #10
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Well, guys,

Maybe someone should ask Mainesail or Minaret, 'cause that looks like varnish to me, not delamination, and it needs to be sanded back, just that rail, and the varnish coats built up again. Then the rail will be beautiful AND it will not match the surrounding timbers not dealt with that way. Your choice as to how to approach it. But I really think a few hours with sandpaper and varnish brush with polyurethane varnish will make it look lots better, even if it doesn't match.

Ann
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Old 21-06-2014, 01:22   #11
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

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Yes, this is a polyester finish. Your woodworker is correct in his assessment.
Thanks Delancey. Do you have any suggestions of how to fix a damaged polyester finish?
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Old 21-06-2014, 05:18   #12
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Regrettably, I don't have any recommendations that you haven't already heard. As far as how I know it's polyester, let's just say I once managed a situation that involved dealing with more than a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of messed up polyester finish that looked just like your rail.

Very nice finish for a grand piano or a corporate jet. Totally inappropriate finish selection for a boat. Builders like it because it's quick to recoat and you can easily build up a deliciously thick and luscious gloss as well as being able to polish out mistakes in the application. Looks great for a while, then it starts to look like crap.

The tell tale sign is the jagged chipping on the right hand side of the delaminated area. What happens is that the finish is very hard. Harder in fact than the wood beneath it. As the rail gets beaten the softer wood is crushed and deformed while the polyester coating over the top springs back into it's shape and the finish separates from the wood beneath it.

The result is the visible void which you see running down the rail as a discolored streak. Yes, that really is a void where the finish is pulled away from the wood, not just an area where the varnish is discolored or opaque. If you look closely at the chipped area you will see it.

Bummer, as before the guy you talked to gave you the correct response as far as how to deal with it. Having looked at other pictures of the boat you are in a very unenviable position.

I am not sure what your goals and expectations are so it is difficult for me to offer any advice. Is the boat precious to you? Do you expect it to be perfect? If so I am afraid you have a lot of work ahead of you.

Edit- I reread your post. You mentioned re veneering which I don't understand. But basically to fix it you need to strip down to bare wood (basically what your woodworker was saying) and refinish. You shouldn't have to be replacing any actual wood to do the job.
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Old 21-06-2014, 07:13   #13
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Question - I would assume there was a both a broker and a surveyor involved with the purchase? If so what did they tell you about this condition before you bought the boat?
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Old 21-06-2014, 18:58   #14
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Wow, Delancey,

If you guys are right, then why not a nice, curved piece of s/s as a bang and nick protector applied over the entirety of the damaged area? the same sort of product one uses to protect timber from line abrasion?

Ann
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Old 22-06-2014, 14:12   #15
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Re: Replacing Rail Lip on Freezer Cabinet - Antares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Regrettably, I don't have any recommendations that you haven't already heard. As far as how I know it's polyester, let's just say I once managed a situation that involved dealing with more than a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of messed up polyester finish that looked just like your rail.

Very nice finish for a grand piano or a corporate jet. Totally inappropriate finish selection for a boat. Builders like it because it's quick to recoat and you can easily build up a deliciously thick and luscious gloss as well as being able to polish out mistakes in the application. Looks great for a while, then it starts to look like crap.

The tell tale sign is the jagged chipping on the right hand side of the delaminated area. What happens is that the finish is very hard. Harder in fact than the wood beneath it. As the rail gets beaten the softer wood is crushed and deformed while the polyester coating over the top springs back into it's shape and the finish separates from the wood beneath it.

The result is the visible void which you see running down the rail as a discolored streak. Yes, that really is a void where the finish is pulled away from the wood, not just an area where the varnish is discolored or opaque. If you look closely at the chipped area you will see it.

Bummer, as before the guy you talked to gave you the correct response as far as how to deal with it. Having looked at other pictures of the boat you are in a very unenviable position.

I am not sure what your goals and expectations are so it is difficult for me to offer any advice. Is the boat precious to you? Do you expect it to be perfect? If so I am afraid you have a lot of work ahead of you.

Edit- I reread your post. You mentioned re veneering which I don't understand. But basically to fix it you need to strip down to bare wood (basically what your woodworker was saying) and refinish. You shouldn't have to be replacing any actual wood to do the job.
Thanks so much Delaney. We really appreciate your acumen here, and how much you've shared.

The "wood" underneath is really just a thin Cherry veneer. So if we strip the polyester off, we're likely not to have much veneer underneath to work with.

We think we can get a replacement rail piece from the builder for the freezer cabinet and simply replace the damaged rail. The color may not match perfectly, but it's the best solution we can see for it.

For other damaged areas of wood on the boat, we're going to do some repairs, and where there was some damage on a bit horizontal entertainment cabinet top, we're going to replace it with corian.

Wish us luck, and keep the great advice coming!

EllesBelles
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