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Old 26-09-2016, 16:45   #16
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

I don't think Antares N.A. was declaring bankruptcy, necessarily, they simply stopped doing business whether or not there is a financial issue is beyond my knowledge base. Perhaps Mark knows more about that.
As far as the partially completed boats being charged extra has to do with the factory in Buenos Aires was not handling the financial aspect of the business, that was Antares N.A. and if your boat was in the process of being built, it would need money to finish her off. This money would have normally been distributed by Antares N.A. but that pipeline has been closed, so the alternative is for the boats under construction be charged. In some instances this could be a little or maybe more than a little. Don't know the breakdown but the email I saw mentioned a plan to reimburse this premium by the future sales going forward. We'll see how this plays out and again, maybe Mark can add to this so I don't mislead to far a field.
I feel bad for the position that Antares N.A. put the factory in........Good boat builders in a tricky spot.
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Old 26-09-2016, 19:18   #17
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

All,

Please see the Catamaran Concepts blog (catamaranconcepts.com) for a post re the situation with Antares 44 project. Boats continue to be built and new boats will be contracted for construction when the backlog has cleared. The present organization was unfortunately unable to arrange for the Annapolis Show in a timely fashion.

Ted
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Old 27-09-2016, 07:08   #18
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

From ➥ https://catamaranconcepts.com/

...arrangements have been made to complete boat construction underway and continue production in the future. If you want to speak with the yard concerning your Antares 44 project, you can presently contact Memo Castro who has been building the boats for the last eight years and would love to discuss things with you memocastro@40gradossur.com
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Old 27-09-2016, 08:11   #19
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie View Post
I don't think Antares N.A. was declaring bankruptcy, necessarily, they simply stopped doing business whether or not there is a financial issue is beyond my knowledge base. Perhaps Mark knows more about that.
As far as the partially completed boats being charged extra has to do with the factory in Buenos Aires was not handling the financial aspect of the business, that was Antares N.A. and if your boat was in the process of being built, it would need money to finish her off. This money would have normally been distributed by Antares N.A. but that pipeline has been closed, so the alternative is for the boats under construction be charged. In some instances this could be a little or maybe more than a little. Don't know the breakdown but the email I saw mentioned a plan to reimburse this premium by the future sales going forward. We'll see how this plays out and again, maybe Mark can add to this so I don't mislead to far a field.
I feel bad for the position that Antares N.A. put the factory in........Good boat builders in a tricky spot.
I'm still very confused by all this, even after all the latest posts. Maybe no one is declaring bankruptcy, but then what is the motivation for people to pay more for an unbuilt boat? The only motivation that comes to mind is that current customers have the choice of paying more or losing whatever they have already spent? Why else would they pay more. Also, it Antares N.A. did not send funds to Argentina, and they need this money to finish the boats, then there obviously in some financial trouble in Argentina?

Why is all this so secret? There are plenty of current owners and even future owners. Seems like a lot of details are being kept quiet.
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Old 29-09-2016, 11:03   #20
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Seaadventurers,

The situation has resulted from the absence of an inquiry response network rather than an effort at secrecy. The marketing and sales entity that has been very active for eight years has ceased to operate. The web site remains but the yard, though intact and functional, has yet to establish a web sales position of its own. The yard's owner can be contacted as indicated.
I am maintaining the associated 'catamaran concepts' web site myself as I was the sole source of its content in any case.

The details of the arrangements between pending owners and the yard aimed at completing the boats in process are rightly not for public consumption. A very significant portion of the build list has opted to stay on board, and new builds have been contracted, suggesting that the financial aspects of the purchase are not unacceptable. I would suggest that if you would like to get a quote on a new boat, you could discuss this with the yard directly.
The yard did of course have some financial setbacks but they have not been insurmountable, such credit as may have been extended not being primarily related to the production side of the business.
A.Y.LLC chose not to declare bankruptcy as that would have seriously harmed the interests of the owners of boats in process. The decisions have been made that generate the least possible harm to everyone involved, there is no conspiracy to create secrecy, just an unfortunate void.
Hope this assuages your concerns.
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Old 29-09-2016, 12:48   #21
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

First let me extend my sympathy with the Antares employees in NA - it is never easy to get your rug pulled out under you.

In re the NA going out of business without bankruptcy - I think that's worse than declaring bankruptcy under 7, 11 or 13. It shows that the NA company either has no debt to creditors/suppliers (unlikely), or it has no intention of continuing to operate by restructuring its debts.

What happens to the IP portfolio? What happens to owners that needs the IP support for future maintenance? What happens to would be owners who have paid for their boats?

A company deciding to close its doors should have a winding down process - even in the hardest times, update the website to let people know what's going on - send notices to clients. A lack of communication, no matter how it is explained - is a lack of communication. If the employees came in to work one day and found the doors locked, that's the worst way to go.
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:13   #22
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

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Seaadventurers,

The details of the arrangements between pending owners and the yard aimed at completing the boats in process are rightly not for public consumption. A very significant portion of the build list has opted to stay on board, and new builds have been contracted, suggesting that the financial aspects of the purchase are not unacceptable. I would suggest that if you would like to get a quote on a new boat, you could discuss this with the yard directly.

Ted
Ted, thank you for your response, but I think you have proven my point that the details of what happened, the financial viability of the company moving forward, and the financial impact on those waiting for their boat are few and far between.

I have had my heart set on an Antares yacht for some time. I was planning to go to the Annapolis boat show next week and make a final decision on what catamaran to purchase as a liveaboard in a few years. I have inquired through the Antares website, written them emails and have received no response. That is a pretty lousy way for a company to operate and I think SVDestinyAscen said it very well in his/her post above.

While I think the Antares is a great boat and likely fits my needs better than any other boat, in my opinion, I'd have to be nuts to put my money behind so many unknowns. I have run several businesses and know that uncertainty of the financial future of a company (especially without any attempt to clarify) is the kiss of death. Antares better get their act together AND communicate that plan to their potential customers or they will have financial problems even if none exists today.

Bill
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Old 29-09-2016, 14:41   #23
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Thank you for the sentiments expressed.

There is no further information available regarding the business issues pertinent to Antares Yachts LLC. Speculating on what has transpired and its wisdom or otherwise seems to be fruitless though we may all share the same laments. Perhaps we need to recognize that the entity now coming in for criticism is responsible for the very existence of the forum and its subject, the Anatres 44? Whatever decisions have been made, the yard remains intact and functioning.

The yard is now an independent entity and it is not in financial jeopardy apparently, and it can address sales inquiries. (see previous post) Regardless of their possible shortage of internet savvy, they remain very good boat builders and dedicated people.

Boat businesses are by nature saddled with more than the usual quotient of risks. In this instance, boats are being built and delivered despite problems that would have eliminated others, examples abound. Should we not in fact be relieved that you can still get the boat you want built? Write the contract that will give you the security you want.

Ted
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Old 29-09-2016, 17:02   #24
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedC View Post
Thank you for the sentiments expressed.

There is no further information available regarding the business issues pertinent to Antares Yachts LLC. Speculating on what has transpired and its wisdom or otherwise seems to be fruitless though we may all share the same laments. Perhaps we need to recognize that the entity now coming in for criticism is responsible for the very existence of the forum and its subject, the Anatres 44? Whatever decisions have been made, the yard remains intact and functioning.

The yard is now an independent entity and it is not in financial jeopardy apparently, and it can address sales inquiries. (see previous post) Regardless of their possible shortage of internet savvy, they remain very good boat builders and dedicated people.

Boat businesses are by nature saddled with more than the usual quotient of risks. In this instance, boats are being built and delivered despite problems that would have eliminated others, examples abound. Should we not in fact be relieved that you can still get the boat you want built? Write the contract that will give you the security you want.

Ted
Ted, I am very relieved that they are still building the boat, but I am still in shock from all this. I BELIEVE the Antares is the boat for my wife and I, but honestly, I have never seen one. I was planning to travel from TX to Annapolis for pretty much the sole reason to see the Antares. Now I will be looking at others. My only point is that $1.2M (assuming this is still the price), is a lot of money for most people. I for one, would be hesitant to spend that kind of money if I was unaware how current customers were being treated due to the business turmoil.
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:51   #25
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Seaadventures,

Your concerns are totally understandable.

Regardless of whose boat you are considering for a boat building contract, there is an element of business related risk. A good contract arrangement is the best way to alleviate those risks but it has to recognize the needs of the yard's cash flow etc. or it will induce risk in itself; you want the yard to remain healthy to complete and support your boat indefinitely. Ironically, the Antares yard having taken its lumps and regrouped is probably a better perceived risk than one that privately endures a tough financial legacy(?) Any contract will be 'adversarial' in the legal sense but an enjoyable acquisition depends on cooperation and good will (some real enjoyment on both sides is the bonus). That ought to be the goal of everyone involved.

I am informed that there are currently seven boats under contract. The subject of this thread, the lack of an organized Antares web presence, is recognized and will be addressed as soon as possible. The yard principles are understandably very busy with production issues and organization.

The importance of the Annapolis show to potential owners like yourself was recognized by the A.Y. team but there was just not the resources to make it happen, it requires an extraordinary and protracted effort behind the scenes. If you would send me an email via the Catamaran Concepts web site I may be able to offer some connections that you could make in order to see a boat(?) or communicate with a pending owner to gauge the situation on the ground for yourself. Let's see if we can get you closer to the boat you want. I am on the periphery, but a project as long lived as the Antares 44 makes a lot of friends.

Regards,
Ted
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:57   #26
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Disregard. Sorry.
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Old 03-10-2016, 14:39   #27
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

I am now informed that one new boat is due for launch shortly and eight more boats are currently under contract.
Specifically pertinent to this thread; the website inquiry email -www.info@liveantares.com should now be up and running again. This provides anyone interested in the boat a conduit to the yard in Argentina. A poor substitute for the boat show presence but...

I am sure that the 50+ people continuing work at getting Antares 44 boats onto the water thank you for your indulgence and patience.

Ted
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Old 07-10-2016, 15:09   #28
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Hello All

As mentioned in an earlier thread, Rhumb Line Yacht Sales is (and has been) the exclusive Antares brokers for the used market. During this management transition, we will continue to be the "go-to" folks for sales inquiries whether they are for used or new. We believe in the boat we represent and are excited the build will continue at the existing facility, with the experienced craftsman that have been building them for years. The web site has been updated to reflect our contact information. We apologize for anyone who has sent inquires but received no response. That has been resolved.

Unfortunately, we were unable to display a boat for the Annapolis show (it's tough with all our owners are cruising them!) but we plan on being in Miami in February. As things turned out, we needed to be in Stuart, FL with our families during Hurricane Matthew so if we had to miss a year of the show, I guess this was the right one!

Please do not hesitate to reach out with any of your Antares questions, new or used. The sales and marketing team may be shifting but the boat and all its fantastic live aboard qualities has not. It's still the same great vessel and will continue to be!

Beth Simkins
Rhumb Line Yacht Sales
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Old 08-10-2016, 03:57   #29
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Beth.
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Old 16-10-2016, 22:56   #30
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Re: Antares at Annapolis Sailboat Show?

I am glad to see some information coming to light on this matter. I had sailed on a used boat in Charleston in June with the marketing group of Antares. Prepared to send them a $500k deposit for a June 17 delivery for an owner looking to sell his position. Should have alerted me at that juncture that they did not offer any current owners the option to move forward. Received notice a week after my return and a few days before sending them my deposit check of the financial difficulties. That was too close for comfort, but several folks were caught up in the turmoil and have done what was necessary to protect their interests. Glad to see that a good boat builder has manged to work through a difficult process.

I was invited to sail onboard a St. Francis 50 being delivered from South Africa to the Annapolis show and boarded her in St Lucia up to the BVI's and then Georgetown. Was planning to make an offer when my wife visited Annapolis show recently.

My wife was ok with the St. Francis and fully supporting my dream, although not 100% sure of this lifestyle. While negotiating with the owner of St. Francis during the opening days, my wife happened on board the newly launched Xquisite X5. She came and grabbed me and said " you have to see this boat". The couple, Sara and Ramas, have exclusive marketing rights for the boat manufactured in South Africa by Phoenix Marine (took over the assets of Dean Cats). They have brought on the Naval Architect from the former company to oversee the redesign and launch of this new product, Rudolf Jonker.

I had a LOI for Hull #2 that was showing in Annapolis, when a nice couple from Florida came on board and wondered if they could purchase our position as they had a need for tax reasons to purchase this year. We were happy to comply and took on Hull 3 which is scheduled to splash in February 2017. The Admiral (she hates that nickname, but hasn't come up with a better one) fell in love with Sara as much as the boat. These are the kind of people you want to be friends with. They have an interesting concept for avoiding the kind of risk that i am extremely sensitive to regarding boat build progress payments. They have a financial backer that allows them to offer "in-house" financing with a 5% deposit and payments into an independent escrow account until acceptance. That was a huge reason for me to get comfortable with this structure, given my near miss with Antares.

They have sold 3 boats in 3 weeks, one at the Cannes boat show and two last week in Annapolis. Hull 4 is sold and I imagine they will have a backlog after the Miami show in February.

I am not receiving any compensation or otherwise from these nice folks. Just wanted to share my experience over this 8 month journey.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Cheers, jc
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