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Old 08-02-2015, 03:44   #31
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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Originally Posted by jdisarro View Post
Antares Hands Down. Don't ConsiderPrice, More important is resale value, and speed of selling. Also The Antares has a 61ft Mast clearance, for getting under bridges.

Good Luck
resale and speed of selling are composant of the "price" and it s true if you want to buy a new boat but if you want to buy a pre owned boat ( as i plan to do) you re looking a the sweet spot when the price curve stabilizes a little ( usually around 7-10 years depending on the brands) to buy it also depends where you are...selling a pre owned antares in France is mission impossible....so would be a very bad choice here even though it can be teh best choice for you
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:19   #32
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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Originally Posted by beauris View Post
... to buy it also depends where you are...selling a pre owned antares in France is mission impossible....so would be a very bad choice here even though it can be teh best choice for you
Can you explain why trying to sell in France may be mission impossible? I know that some areas of the world may affect price but am stumped by this..
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:28   #33
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

because antares is almost unknown here ( ok i'd drop the almost it 's unknown) and french production of cats is important..lagoon, foutain pajot catana, outremer, marsaudon composite TS 52 and 42, erik lerouge designs etc...to pay the kind of premium you have on an antares while you could have ( to my mind) much more stylish boats makes it a very difficult market for antares.

also ( and i m definitely subjective here) i feel that antares is made for and from a certain tradition that is definitely unfrench...it definitely though fits a market share abroad.
in another post i ve compared antares to haldberg rassy..there are some HR boats in france but i've never crossed the path of an antares yet.

honestly, to me ( i m again being terribly subjective) an antares looks so "old fashion" i would need to go look for something to make the brass shiny

again this is a very personal feeling , antares is probably a very good unit and it definitely has its cult followers, i m just not one of them and there is no market in france for antares i m afraid..if i m wrong let me know
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Old 01-04-2015, 22:18   #34
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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Originally Posted by mdsilvers View Post
I'll provide my opinion. Full disclosure - I'm an Antares 44i owner. We've had Field Trip for over 3 years and have sailed 22,000NM. We are very happy owners. If I had to rewind 3 years would I buy a different boat? No. Would I buy another boat if price was not a consideration? Maybe. A Chris White Atlantic 57 is on the list.

There are very few boat owners I have met over the past 3 years that dislike their boat. The biggest complaint I hear is 'I wish I would have bought a catamaran'. Most do a lot of research and make sound decisions based on their needs and budget. Would I ever own a Fountaine Pajot? You bet. Lagoon? You bet. There are always tradeoffs. Walk onto a Lagoon 550 and it's hard not to love the space. She's not fast, but we could be happy on a 550 or most other boats for that matter.

It's less about the boat and more about actually 'leaving' and making the adventure happen.

Good luck on your decisions. I'm sure it will be the right one for you and your family!
Love your videos on field trip.
What's the average speed that you had from the galapagos to the marquesas. What's the fastest speed you have done on the antares?

It seems nobody has recommended outremer 51 or 5x. They are fast and also have loyal customers

Those lagoons are nice but seem slow like the privileges

Can you get the antares with a square top mainsail?

Thanks
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Old 04-11-2015, 01:56   #35
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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Originally Posted by peteh007 View Post
Hi
Wife and I are planning to purchase a 44ft cat very soon for world cruising... We have short listed to an Antares 44 or an FP Helia 44.
Both loaded for world cruising with similar kit, lets say.
We need help to push us over the edge, one way or the other.
Can anyone help us with good technical advise?
cheers!
Peter
This may come too late since by now you have probably made your decision. But I should let you and others know about my experience with Foutiane Pajot.

Ultimately either boat will get you where you want to go in comfort and safety. But consider that when you buy a boat --particularly a new boat-- you are also buying a warranty and customer support. Any boat you buy will have problems. The issue then becomes one of customer support from the builder.

Fountaine Pajot's customer service motto should be: "We Have Your Money ...What More Do You Want?"

Our new FP was not built properly. The joint between the two halves of the keels were never sealed with GRP "tape". The seams were exposed and one of the keels failed and took on water. Now any builder can make a mistake. In fact ALL of them do. But when a serious building error like this is discovered, the issue quickly becomes one of the builder's responsibility and integrity. How they respond to their own errors is the critical issue.

In my case, despite our alleged "10-year hull warranty", FP denied out warranty claim (the boat is only 4 years old) - imperiously declaring that the seal separation might have been due to haul-out errors or grounding.

There is no evidence of grounding - no actual damage, no gouges, scrapes, cracks, dings, dents ...nothing, just a separation at the seam. And to suggest that the seam split upon hauling is absurd. The keel drained water for 3-4 hours. How did that water get in there while the boat was being lifted on it's hulls with the straps placed precisely where the owner's manual says they should be placed - fore and aft of the keels?

The repair for the one keel was $4,600; we also had the yard proactively fix the other one, which cost a little less since they did not have to repair an actual separation between the two halves of that keel.

Bottom line ...your new boat WILL have problems, no matter who makes it. While the Helia is likely to out-sail the Antares, in my opinion, FP is FAR less likely to respond to those problems with honesty and integrity and to support you, their customer. After all, they got your money. Why are you bothering them with your problems?

My impression, while not based on experience, is that Antares is a company with some integrity and will probably NOT leave you out in the cold to fix the problems that THEY created at your own cost.

Bottom line: I will never recommend that anyone ever buy a Fountaine Pajot. In your case the Antares is likely to be a better choice.

- BH

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Old 06-01-2016, 14:46   #36
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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Originally Posted by Capn Bri View Post
This may come too late since by now you have probably made your decision. But I should let you and others know about my experience with Foutiane Pajot.

Ultimately either boat will get you where you want to go in comfort and safety. But consider that when you buy a boat --particularly a new boat-- you are also buying a warranty and customer support. Any boat you buy will have problems. The issue then becomes one of customer support from the builder.

Fountaine Pajot's customer service motto should be: "We Have Your Money ...What More Do You Want?"

Our new FP was not built properly. The joint between the two halves of the keels were never sealed with GRP "tape". The seams were exposed and one of the keels failed and took on water. Now any builder can make a mistake. In fact ALL of them do. But when a serious building error like this is discovered, the issue quickly becomes one of the builder's responsibility and integrity. How they respond to their own errors is the critical issue.

In my case, despite our alleged "10-year hull warranty", FP denied out warranty claim (the boat is only 4 years old) - imperiously declaring that the seal separation might have been due to haul-out errors or grounding.

There is no evidence of grounding - no actual damage, no gouges, scrapes, cracks, dings, dents ...nothing, just a separation at the seam. And to suggest that the seam split upon hauling is absurd. The keel drained water for 3-4 hours. How did that water get in there while the boat was being lifted on it's hulls with the straps placed precisely where the owner's manual says they should be placed - fore and aft of the keels?

The repair for the one keel was $4,600; we also had the yard proactively fix the other one, which cost a little less since they did not have to repair an actual separation between the two halves of that keel.

Bottom line ...your new boat WILL have problems, no matter who makes it. While the Helia is likely to out-sail the Antares, in my opinion, FP is FAR less likely to respond to those problems with honesty and integrity and to support you, their customer. After all, they got your money. Why are you bothering them with your problems?

My impression, while not based on experience, is that Antares is a company with some integrity and will probably NOT leave you out in the cold to fix the problems that THEY created at your own cost.

Bottom line: I will never recommend that anyone ever buy a Fountaine Pajot. In your case the Antares is likely to be a better choice.

- BH

.
I've sailed Helia quite a bit and I know the boat pretty well. I've just seen one Antares that came for servicing (broken boom as a result of accidental gybe) but couldn't sail her. Nevertheless, looking at the numbers, sail area, displacement, etc. one can easily say that Antares will be significantly slower than Helia.
I have to say that I don't agree at all with the comments on sail drive; I have sailed, we have serviced thousand of cats, haven't seen yet any single cat that ran into trouble because of sail drives. (for mono's, it's a different issue..) If one go for shaft drive on a cat, he/she will have to accept the engines under the beds, not a good idea. After couple of hours of motoring , yr cabin will turn into sauna.. not to mention the extra noise and occosional vibration, diesel fumes and odors, etc..
Helia s are very good value for money, if you want to spend 50% more, there are much better alternatives; Saba 50, outremer 51, Catana carbon 47, etc..
I don't have an experience with the after sale service of Antares and wouldn't be surprised if it's much better than for FP; after all, they have very few boats to take care and are selling awfully expensive prices..(my personal feeling). I know FP is making a lot of effort to coop with it's customer needs but beating Antares would be tough.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:46   #37
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

Hi, one and all.
The new Balance 526 seems tickle my fancy this week.
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Old 06-04-2016, 05:51   #38
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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I've sailed Helia quite a bit and I know the boat pretty well. I've just seen one Antares that came for servicing (broken boom as a result of accidental gybe) but couldn't sail her. Nevertheless, looking at the numbers, sail area, displacement, etc. one can easily say that Antares will be significantly slower than Helia.
I have to say that I don't agree at all with the comments on sail drive; I have sailed, we have serviced thousand of cats, haven't seen yet any single cat that ran into trouble because of sail drives. (for mono's, it's a different issue..) If one go for shaft drive on a cat, he/she will have to accept the engines under the beds, not a good idea. After couple of hours of motoring , yr cabin will turn into sauna.. not to mention the extra noise and occosional vibration, diesel fumes and odors, etc..
Hi Yeloya. I have not actually seen any sail drive failures either. But I have heard from those who have. And I agree that shaft-drives have their own problems and there are enough failures of shaft seals to give anyone a reason to be diligent in maintaining them. I guess the bottom line is, every system is fallible and almost anything you put in salt water will fail at some point. I used to tell my customers (when I was a yacht broker) that the worst thing you can do to a boat is put it in water!


Quote:
Helia s are very good value for money, if you want to spend 50% more, there are much better alternatives; Saba 50, outremer 51, Catana carbon 47, etc..
I don't have an experience with the after sale service of Antares and wouldn't be surprised if it's much better than for FP; after all, they have very few boats to take care and are selling awfully expensive prices..(my personal feeling). I know FP is making a lot of effort to coop with it's customer needs but beating Antares would be tough.
I think Antares only sells a few boats a year and they most certainly are expensive. Some friends of mine who own an old Lagoon have some friends that I have not met, but they just sold one Antares and bought another one. They sell VERY quickly on the used market and Antares has no problem selling the few that they make each year. In fact the couple that are taking delivery soon on their new Antares were able to get it in something less than a year only because a previous buyer backed out of the purchase, leaving one hull almost finished, but un-sold. Having a boat available to sell is a very strange thing for Antares. Each boat is usually sold even before the first moulding is cast.

Ad for FP, they are in the business of mass-producing boats, most of which go into the charter trade. So there is a big difference between them and Antares. Different (though overlapping) markets and different purposes. I think that the Helia is probably a little better built than previous FPs. I can only say that after seeing several at boat shows and in the fleet where my own boat was in charter for a few years. They are a full ton heavier than their predecessor (the Orana) and I don't think that the sail area is much greater. But I a told by a charter captain friend of mine that they sail about the same.

My big problem with FP is their customer service. Our dealer even denied that they sold me my boat when I tried to get them to plead our warranty case before FP!!! But there are bad dealers representing any maker. There is also no shortage of boat builders who make big mistakes. Buying a new boat (or any boat, really) is a roll of the dice. Because FP seems to have had a rash of problems lately, my advice to anyone buying a new FP is make sure you dig DEEP into your dealer's history. Find out from objective sources if they live up to all of the promises that they always make. There are so many flakes and liars and con artists in the boat business it makes me sick. The biggest dealer is not always the best.

And those that do not provide promised customer services should be dragged out into the parking lots of their offices and shot!

Have a nice day.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:39   #39
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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...selling a pre owned antares in France is mission impossible....
We decided on an Antares in early 2014 and had hoped we could wait for a new build. Unfortunately we needed to start sooner so waited patiently for the used market. We would have gladly gone to France or anywhere else in the world to get the right boat. At the time our selection was between a boat in Turkey and Florida. Both were sold within weeks of our becoming aware of them. Having been on both, would have gladly gone to France for either. Just one sailors opinion...
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:02   #40
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

the thing is that i 'm not aware of an antares on the french market and i ve been looking at the market for quite a while. it really is a very "anglo" type of boat.
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Old 10-06-2016, 14:30   #41
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

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the thing is that i 'm not aware of an antares on the french market and i ve been looking at the market for quite a while.
In that, you quite possibly are right, I believe they just launched hull 52 of the 44i line: so, only ~52 on the planet. Demand was at or higher than supply when we were looking.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:12   #42
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

Perfect Ride who needs Antares sales people when there are owners like you out there! We just wanted to share that Swanie, the Antares 44i, in Stuart FL made it through hurricane Matthew without a scratch. For anyone wanting to see the pros of an Antares over other boats, she is a perfect example.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:18   #43
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Re: Antares 44 vs Helia 44 - help us decide?

Hi all,
Over the three years we have enjoyed cruising on board for six month periods we have found careful and sensible passage planning ensured we avoided any extreme weather events. Just makes sense, and your choice of a 44' cat will come down to the features you see as must have. We went through this process when selecting the He'lia as our choice back in 2013. Also the budget dictates the options you can install.
We have had no issues with the FP He'lia 44 only items from other manufacturers have give us minor problems, but FP and the manufacturers themselves came to our rescue.
Unfortunately we have been placed in the unfortunate position of having to put our cruising life on hold for an unknown period due to family health issues back home in Australia and have dry docked our He'lia 'The Larrikin' on the East Coast of USA and have placed her on the market for sale.
Our agent in Australia can respond to any inquiries. patrick@multihullsolutions.com.au
With regards to choice you will know what boat you will buy once you step on board.
Gordon.
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