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Old 01-05-2013, 07:10   #16
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

ABYC are standards, not regulations.

I've never heard of any regulations that apply to recreational boat wiring. Regulations are laws that must be followed, as a civilian with a recreational vessel you are not bound by the regulations that do cover commercial vessels.

An insurer might want to see wiring done up to ABYC or other standards, but for a 27' recreational vessel, the odds are that they will never ask about the wiring and that your policy will never mention it.

More important is that the wiring be fully tinned (marine corrosion), properly fused, and normally sized for less than a 3% voltage drop in each circuit.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:37   #17
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

I have no objection to the view that crimping is a preferred method, but I don't agree with the proposal that all soldered joints should be redone.

Having a mechanical connection on power wires is sensible advice. In fact it makes soldering much easier so is a good policy even on all wires where possible.

The only caution I would add is that crimping requires good quality terminals of the correct size. These are difficult to obtain in out of the way places and many amateurs and even
professionals end up making poor quality crimped connections.

The problems are compounded by the use of crude crimping tools (often for the larger sized wires) and some slightly different wire sizes between America and much of the rest of the world.
These problems are solvable, but in practice these issues are frequently not addressed and the final result is poor.

I think crusing sailors should remain flexible when deciding the preferred method depending on the equipment and materials that is available.
Knowing how to solder well is a good skill for any cruiser to obtain.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:41   #18
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

Good luck. Wiring projects always seem to expend beyond the original intent. I just finished a big wiring project on my boat.

Two resources I would suggest you check out are the Compass Marine "how to" articles and MaineSail's forum. Great sources of information and it will help you save money while doing the job right.

Fair winds,

Jesse
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:53   #19
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

Hi Lady, good source for marine wire is genuinedealz, all prices include shipping, they are one of the best around, Bruce.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:58   #20
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobee View Post
Can you tell me where that is stated in ABYC standards? 11.14.5.7 Specifically talks about supporting a soldered joint, then talks about soldered battery lugs.
11.14.5.7 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:16   #21
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Reason is that if the connection overheats and the only thing holding it together is solder, it will fail. Dangerous. A properly-crimped connection remains mechanically secure, even hot.

But note that even the perfect soldered connection will pull apart when hot, if there was no other mechanical means of securing it.
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Now there's info I was looking for! We don't tend to be concerned with wire heating on the planes (if it's that hot, there are LOTS of other problems already, and most likely a breaker's already blown, preventing the heating issue), so solder connections are fine. Hadn't even crossed my mind. I'll be steal.... Um, acquiring some of our environmental splices from work, then! Crimp splice with heat-shrink sleeve with sealant at both ends of the sleeve. Should work wonders. Looks like I get to play with the bilge pump again... :-D
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:44   #22
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Just for grins, I put a couple work photos on my profile. Fun with wiring!
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:48   #23
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

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I've never heard of any regulations that apply to recreational boat wiring. Regulations are laws that must be followed, as a civilian with a recreational vessel you are not bound by the regulations that do cover commercial vessels.
Hellosailor, Youve not come across the EU RCD Directive then, which is a regulation not a recommendation. ( not saying its better or worse then anything else)
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Old 01-05-2013, 13:10   #24
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

It seems they're talking about supporting the wire, not the electrical portion when soldering.
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Old 01-05-2013, 16:43   #25
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

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Originally Posted by dannobee View Post
It seems they're talking about supporting the wire, not the electrical portion when soldering.
That statement needs an explanation.
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Old 01-05-2013, 17:28   #26
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

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That statement needs an explanation.
GordMay cited the section. It's not soldering that's the problem, it's that they don't want a soldered splice hanging out in midair without being supported (which would be very poor craftsmanship anyway).

Notice that the next sentence clarifies their statement. And their third sentence states that it's just fine if it's a battery lug.

Crimp or solder, I could care less what you do on your own boat, but I do know what's accepted by the major manufacturers on the engine side, and the factories have gone to great lengths to see that us factory trained stiffs know how to properly solder terminals and splices, especially in recent years with stuff like fly-by-wire throttles and ECM/PCM's.
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Old 01-05-2013, 17:50   #27
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Now there's info I was looking for! We don't tend to be concerned with wire heating on the planes (if it's that hot, there are LOTS of other problems already, and most likely a breaker's already blown, preventing the heating issue), so solder connections are fine. Hadn't even crossed my mind. I'll be steal.... Um, acquiring some of our environmental splices from work, then! Crimp splice with heat-shrink sleeve with sealant at both ends of the sleeve. Should work wonders. Looks like I get to play with the bilge pump again... :-D
Yes you see these a lot in marine applications.
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:40   #28
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

I don't know if some people actually believe soldering is better than crimping or if they just like to argue on the Internet.

Manufacturers crimp the connections, they don't solder them. If you get away from boating forums where most folks have no idea of what they are talking about when it comes to electricity and do some research, you will find that those who actually know this stuff recommend crimping, not soldering. And they can explain why.

I feel sorry for anyone who has to get his or her electrical information on boating forums. They are being fed a bunch of crap.
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:47   #29
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

Don't lick the red wires without a really heavy industrial adult diaper on. Everything else should be ok.
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Old 01-05-2013, 18:52   #30
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Re: Wiring Regulations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobee View Post
GordMay cited the section. It's not soldering that's the problem, it's that they don't want a soldered splice hanging out in midair without being supported (which would be very poor craftsmanship anyway).
To be clear, it's not wire support, the ABYC spec wants the wire secured AT the connection. ABYC (and IEC etc etc) wants the wire wrapped a couple of times round a terminal or a pin before its soldered. Or the bare wire must be held in a crimp before soldering.

Basically, they don't want a power connection to fall apart if it overheats.
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