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Old 27-07-2018, 19:42   #31
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
None of these show an AC ground to DC NEG bond and they show no ground from the fuel fill fitting to the gas tank. Not acceptable since the late 60's
Ive a Pearson and the diagram is much the same. My boat has the factory bonding system and the fuel tank, and tank filler is included, I cant recall if the AC side is but I suspect not. I should chase the bonding system diagram but I think its more situational than it is a wiring diagram.

You can see the bus for the bonding system on the wiring diagram, should be upper right. If it helps all bonding system wiring on Pearsons is green.
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Old 27-07-2018, 21:20   #32
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Those charger rules of thumb are outdated.

.15-.20C for FLA
.25-.50C for AGM

are actual charge rates.

Consumer loads during charge cycle are extra.

As stated FLA can be lower, only con is charge time.

With quality AGM lower rates will reduce longevity.

Stacking multiple chargers in parallel is fine even if diverse charging profiles.
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Old 27-07-2018, 21:35   #33
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

the biggest problem ive seen with wiring is that your A/C ground should not touch any ground on your boat (engine block, anodes....) other than that just follow ABYC standards.
use a ratcheting crimper, use marine grade shrink tube or regular shrink tube with liquid electrical tape. make sure your connectors are actually marine grade. (cut one and make sure its tinned copper) aluminum connectors will not last on a boat and ive found these in marine stores.


all wiring must be protected by a fuse. so never feed a 12 gauge wire with anything larger than a 20 amp fuse, 15 amp for 14 gauge. main trunks you should use size and length to calculate. if youre feeding 50 amps to a terminal block make sure the terminal block is rated for atleast 50 amps
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Old 29-07-2018, 09:23   #34
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Thanks for all the additional input regarding sizing chargers! Well done.


i guess I should have simply done this:


https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...attery-Charger
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Old 29-07-2018, 11:22   #35
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

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Originally Posted by glcalahan View Post
I am rebuilding my '72 Pearson 33 including (30 amp) re-wiring and re-plumbing. Is there a very basic 101 how to begin the wiring both AC and DC? I have bought a new AC panal and 2 new DC panals. I planned to hang devices ie ProMariner 12-20 charger (2 AGM group 31 in parallel for house and one AGM for Yanmar), VHF, chartplotter, LED cabin lights, nav lights and THAN pull wire to the panal. Also will be installing a Galvanic isolator.

Ideally, it would be nice if the was a video of step 1,2,3,4 etc

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. FWIW....I was an Aviation Electronic tech now 68 and "I don't want to have to understand how the engine works to drive the car!"

Gary
Simple stuff from an E.E. and sailor. I have a C&C 33.

You don't have to build it like the manufacturers who must comply with yachting standards. None of those standards are meant to make the boat safer in a lightning storm, or better for radio communications. And those are two things that are important to consider.
So, first separate your navigational systems from the main house power systems by using a dedicated battery for the nav stuff and the radio, with its own isolated solar charging system.
Then do not connect electronics to the engine ground system because you think it best to ground everything. It isn't.
Do not connect the ships bonding system to the house ground, nor the engine.
Keep your wire runs loose in conduit, so that one wire is not pressed hard upon another. Make any radio or other communication wire run at right angles to the power lines of inverters and pumps, fridge and so on.

Run co-ax cable to the outside of eh boat for antennas and tuners. Have no open wires (non co-axial) within the hull carrying RF signals.

Connect all shrouds, mast, lifelines, toe rails to a lightning bonding system that goes as straight as possible to a sea connection as close to the base of the mast as possible. This is not the best solution but much better than bonding to the engine because a lightning strike can take out the engine bearings as the flash travels down the shaft to the sea.

Connect the safety ground on radios directly to the sea with a separate wire not more than 6 feet long.

Bond through hulls together, if you must, but don't connect that system to the house ground. Better on a fiberglass boat to leave them isolated from one another.

Now you have the beginnings of a solid electrical network.

As for the wiring of everything, lights fans and so on I have completely stripped out the OEM wiring which had been a nightmare of wires according to the codes, and made it very simple. I have set up 12 volt fused boxes at strategic positions in the boat, and run 12 volts from the fused battery bank to those locations using #4 wire. Then all my wiring is local, short and easy to service. I have several fuse boxes, of course.
Always use marine grade wire that is tinned and the same for connectors - buy the best. Attach labels to the wires. Run port and starboard 12 Volt lines so you don't have to cross the boat to bring power to an item.

Fuse the main power wires close to the battery bank for fire safety, but keep the fuses outside the battery box enclosure. Have main power switches each for house, engine, and instruments to help troubleshooting.

Hope that helps ask questions as you go along.
waeshael32@gmail,com

Cheers
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Old 29-07-2018, 13:03   #36
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Quote:
Originally Posted by waeshael View Post
Simple stuff from an E.E. and sailor. I have a C&C 33.

You don't have to build it like the manufacturers who must comply with yachting standards. None of those standards are meant to make the boat safer in a lightning storm, or better for radio communications. And those are two things that are important to consider.
So, first separate your navigational systems from the main house power systems by using a dedicated battery for the nav stuff and the radio, with its own isolated solar charging system.
Then do not connect electronics to the engine ground system because you think it best to ground everything. It isn't.
Do not connect the ships bonding system to the house ground, nor the engine.
Keep your wire runs loose in conduit, so that one wire is not pressed hard upon another. Make any radio or other communication wire run at right angles to the power lines of inverters and pumps, fridge and so on.

Run co-ax cable to the outside of eh boat for antennas and tuners. Have no open wires (non co-axial) within the hull carrying RF signals.

Connect all shrouds, mast, lifelines, toe rails to a lightning bonding system that goes as straight as possible to a sea connection as close to the base of the mast as possible. This is not the best solution but much better than bonding to the engine because a lightning strike can take out the engine bearings as the flash travels down the shaft to the sea.

Connect the safety ground on radios directly to the sea with a separate wire not more than 6 feet long.

Bond through hulls together, if you must, but don't connect that system to the house ground. Better on a fiberglass boat to leave them isolated from one another.

Now you have the beginnings of a solid electrical network.

As for the wiring of everything, lights fans and so on I have completely stripped out the OEM wiring which had been a nightmare of wires according to the codes, and made it very simple. I have set up 12 volt fused boxes at strategic positions in the boat, and run 12 volts from the fused battery bank to those locations using #4 wire. Then all my wiring is local, short and easy to service. I have several fuse boxes, of course.
Always use marine grade wire that is tinned and the same for connectors - buy the best. Attach labels to the wires. Run port and starboard 12 Volt lines so you don't have to cross the boat to bring power to an item.

Fuse the main power wires close to the battery bank for fire safety, but keep the fuses outside the battery box enclosure. Have main power switches each for house, engine, and instruments to help troubleshooting.

Hope that helps ask questions as you go along.
waeshael32@gmail,com

Cheers
I cannot see wires rattling around in conduits. Seems like abrasion of isolation? I would prefer to see them bundled.
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:51   #37
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

My tips.
Run AC along one side of the boat and DC down the other and minimise DC and AC wiring meeting.
I pulled cables through drainpipes under each gunwale.
Oversize cables - it doesn't cost that much more.
Keep signalling and control cables a good few cm from others.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:18   #38
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

spend about $40 for a hand-held hydraulic battery lug crimper - they're awesome.
Home Depot sell "booklets" of little self-adhesive number tags.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:18   #39
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Go online and find wiring diagrams for any boat your size as that will give you guidance as to circuitry and loads. Don Casey is an author of some very good practical books so buy the one you need.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:19   #40
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCrunch View Post
spend about $40 for a hand-held hydraulic battery lug crimper - they're awesome.
Home Depot sell "booklets" of little self-adhesive number tags.
You don't need a hydraulic crimper for small body work, we use a greenlee manual crimper for up to 4/0 cables. The cheap Chinese hydraulics work ok but don't last.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:02   #41
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

On the subject of "marine" grade wiring: I do have a preference for MIL-M-22579 wire.
It get the tick in the box for tinned copper strands; and, its advantage is that the insulation is superior (and thinner) than the wire/cable you generally would find at a marine chandlery.
As an avionics engineer, I would bet that you have seen your fair share of this wire, and you would know its advantages (and disadvantages).
There is good advice proffered by other posters.
Bear in mind that someone else may have to work on your electrics; schematic and wiring diagrams are essential (for both you and the other persons).
I have attached the drawing of the main and aux DC distribution system (post-lightning strike DEC17), which was used for the re-wire from the damage caused by the strike.
Cheers
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 24-60_1 Electrical DC Distribution 18166-03.pdf (44.9 KB, 37 views)
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:32   #42
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Get a hold of the ABYC guidelines for electrical systems....and stick to them.
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Old 06-08-2018, 14:47   #43
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

Make a list of what equipment you have, and add to that list all you would LIKE to have--radar, etc etc.

I wire my vessels differently to most. I do not use a central switch panel for all of my equipment, just for navigation lights and the indicator lamps and remote over-ride switches for my bilge pumps. I never liked all of the extra wiring associated therewith, and the running of long circuits to and from equipment just to have all of the master switches in one place. If you have to go to a device to switch it on--why not have the master switch for it and its fuse there too?

I run a pair of heavy bus-bars from the bow of the vessel to the stern, in a two-track conduit that can be opened and closed and wires admitted to it as desired. I allow no joining of wires or supply of power in the bilges--all is either on the saloon roof, or on either side of the cabin at deck height.

Bilge pump wiring is soldered to the supply circuit along with any wiring to an indicator lamp visible from the cabin. The soldered wires are stepped apart, taped with poly-isobutadeine self-amalgamating tape, and the whole covered in heat shrink tubing or taped with Nitto PVC tape.

The red leg of this pair of bus bars is fused with a circuit breaker next to the battery isolation switch. I use a 30 amp breaker--but one could possibly get away with less. They cost about $50 each--but ceramic fused bolted to connectors will cost a little less, but are less convenient to operate in the event something goes wrong and one or both opens the circuit. I have my isolation switch well clear of the bilges, and all fuses well clear too. My bus bars I got from military surplus--they are tinned wire and of the sort used in aircraft.

When I install equipment, I run a pair of wires through a duct or conduit to these bus bars and make a connection to them using tags soldered to the bus bars themselves. Neat and tidy--no p wiring visible. A fuse is mounted alongside the master switch mounted adjacent to the equipment, its value appropriate to the current draw X 3 expected from the maximum use of the equipment. Use a simple covered fuse holder of the automotive type. Unobtrusive and easily sealed against moisture, dust or critters, and very effective,

This system does not include the heavy leads to an anchor windlass--but does include the capacity for a charging circuit for the pony battery that drives the windlass, via a blocking diode which will drop the volts by half a volt. The blocking diode arrangement is to prevent the windlass draw from taking power from the bus bars instead of 100% from the pony battery--and blowing the main bus bar fuses. The windlass can draw up to 100 amps, and the pony battery is fused with an overload switch to this value.

The beauty of this simple system is that anything can be added as desired--the wiring will always be heavy enough--and if I use 30 amp 6 mm tinned DC wiring to all of the connections to the bus bars, soldered not clamped, any equipment problems will not affect anything else wired into the circuits--it will simply blow its own fuse and a master switch will remove it from the system until it can be safely replaced or repaired. Voltage drops will be minimal. Diagnosis of problems and hunting for disconnections in wierd looms and junction boxes festooned with jumpers is eliminated.

If you must run two instruments from the one bus-bar connected linkage, such as two radios of different types, fuse them adequately and separately with their own isolating switches--do not just rely on the "Off" switch on the equipment itself.

So there you have it--the distribution of DC to everything on board simplified.

The AC is done in exactly the same way--but run the AC supply in a different marked conduit and use an overload switch set to about ten amps, then an isolating transformer if you have one--but if you are using an air conditioner on AC mains--some other form of isolation it might serve better. Air conditioners draw a lot of power..

All of the AC equipment used aboard my vessels was fitted with plugs and switched outlets of the domestic kind. Nothing was hard-wired, all used over load switches instead of fuses.

AC plugs and DC plugs are different and one can not be accidentally plugged in to the other. DC plugs are often more expensive--but NEVER cut costs by using AC plugs for DC.

AC circuits do not need to be as heavy as 6 mm conductors unless you intend to run air conditioners and electric ovens and water heaters and a stove all at the same time.

My water heating was gas--only fans and air conditioners ran from AC when at a marina--and when at sea those same fans ran from the same circuits by using either a generator or an inverter. I could not use the air conditioner at sea--it was AC only.
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Old 06-08-2018, 15:22   #44
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

There's a lot of good info already in this post, I don't bellieve I need to add to it on the technical end.
I just completed rewiring my boat, which is an 87 vintage.
It has a 200 amp alternator with a smart controller, a diesel generator, a 50amp 120VAC charger with an Ample power controller, a 25 amp 120vac charger (just in case), VHF (new), SSB (new,replacing the old one), Two chart plotters (one at the wheel, one at the nav station), radar, AIS, an onboard water maker run on 220VAC from the generator, auto pilot (new, replacing the undersized old one), wind instruments, and is completely bonded. Oh, and AC shore power too.
This is the fifth boat I've rewired, and the most complex too.
TO say it required a bit of planning, research, calls to the instrument suppliers tech support (which sometimes got good advice, sometimes sorta good) and a fair amount of reading, calculating, measuring, ordering and just plain head scratching would be an understatement.
A few things to simplify the job?
- Place all your equipment first. While doing that make sure to allow for good clean well supported wiring runs, you'd be surprised how quickly space can get tight. Try to avoid putting anything giving off RFI near sensitive instruments like an electronic compass, etc.
- Get good measurements on your wire runs, the more straightforward the better, although this is not always practical. The shorter the runs the less voltage loss you'll get.
- Try to keep high voltage (AC) away from low voltage wiring like signal or comm wiring.
- Good tools, they're worth their weight in gold, the price you pay will come back to you quickly.
Have at least a decent print to start with, you may alter it but at least you'll have a start.
- Stick to ABYC recommendations, there's a reason most quality yacht builders use them.
- I've used marine heat shrink crimp connectors over the years wherever I could, they're more expensive but I've never had one fail on previous boats I've wired up. Heat shrink tubing is good if you can't get the proper size heat shrink connectors for a particular crimp, for instance on custom battery cables.
- Don't skimp on the quality of the wire, it's cheap as compared to a system failing or worse, an onboard fire.
It might seem a bit overwhelming at first, but with proper planning and preparation it'll all become clearer during the installation phase.
Good luck.
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Old 06-08-2018, 15:50   #45
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....

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Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
I run a pair of heavy bus-bars

My bus bars I got from military surplus--they are tinned wire and of the sort used in aircraft.
Links please?

Pics of some key example spots of your setup would also be greatly appreciated.
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