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26-07-2018, 10:12
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024
The only comment that I would share with you is:
Being a scratch install design the wiring and draw a schematic then wire to that schematic.
Later you will be happy to have the schematic.
Best of luck!
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And label both ends of each wire.
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26-07-2018, 10:36
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 600
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Maybe this will help, find attached
Pearson Triton DC wiring diagram' hull 561 Nov 78
Pearson 10m DC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
Pearson 10m AC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
__________________
'give what you get, then get gone'
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26-07-2018, 10:54
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 586
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
I also cast another vote for the 12v bible. It's simple and straightforward. Also, in relation to the OP, a 20 amp charger is way too small for your house bank.
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26-07-2018, 10:57
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#19
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
What chemistry bank and AH capacity?
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26-07-2018, 10:59
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,787
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privilege
I also cast another vote for the 12v bible. It's simple and straightforward. Also, in relation to the OP, a 20 amp charger is way too small for your house bank.
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I would be interested to know why a 20amp charger is way too small for a 250AH battery bank.
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26-07-2018, 11:06
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#21
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Yes 40A would be better even if low-CAR FLA.
But not harmful to longevity, just takes a bit longer to charge.
If good quality AGM 60A would be IMO a minimum, 100A ideal.
With an impact on longevity as well as charging time.
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26-07-2018, 13:18
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 2,496
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
I suggest that you break this lob down into three of four parts:
1) DC wiring from battery, engine and charger, and to DC panels.
2) DC wiring from dc panels to devices.
3) AC wiring from power inlet to panel.
4) AC wiring to devices and outlets.
Three and four could be combined since three is pretty simple.
Label everything. You will appreciate it in the future.
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26-07-2018, 15:04
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,703
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia
I would be interested to know why a 20amp charger is way too small for a 250AH battery bank.
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Let's do the math (no preconceived results in my mind at this time while typing, OK?)
250ah house bank, 1/2 usable, 50% SOC needs 125 ah replaced
Based on experience AND confirmation from trusted boat electrical references and people like Maine Sail, a nominal 400 ah bank has an acceptance of 50-80A shortly after connecting a charge source. So maybe this smaller bank would accept 40-50A.
Linearly, then, a 20A charger would take 125/20 = 6.25 hours.
BUT, since battery acceptance reduces as SOC increases when charging, it'd be easily double if not more, than that time.
With a charger that small, the skipper is NOT taking advantage of the current that his bank can accept and will simply take longer to charge.
HOWEVER, if he is a marina hopper and/or plugs in overnight regularly, it will work. Just takes longer.
That's the how and why.
Your boat, your choice.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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26-07-2018, 16:24
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#24
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Plus AGMs simply require the higher amps for longevity.
The faster charging bit may be only 30-60 minutes over the 5-7 hour total.
So not necessarily a major issue if an FLA bank.
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27-07-2018, 10:07
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia
I would be interested to know why a 20amp charger is way too small for a 250AH battery bank.
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Because sitting at the dock with lights, fridge. Phone charger ect yiu are draining 10-15-20a? from the battery. Leaving you very little or nothing left for charging. Now your 20a charger is only a 5a charger.
A charger needs to 10-20% of battery size plus all dc loads used on boat.
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27-07-2018, 10:47
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZULU40
Maybe this will help, find attached
Pearson Triton DC wiring diagram' hull 561 Nov 78
Pearson 10m DC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
Pearson 10m AC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
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That would have been a good system in 1970 but would not support most moder cruising requirements. No reserved battery for engine start, inadequate charging etc. Look at moder 'distributed panel' systems. You have separate distribution/switch panels for each set of services such as pumps and machinery, lights, nav. Make the system much simpler to follow and service plus reduces interference.
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27-07-2018, 10:53
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#27
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZULU40
Maybe this will help, find attached
Pearson Triton DC wiring diagram' hull 561 Nov 78
Pearson 10m DC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
Pearson 10m AC wiring diagram' 11 9 72
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None of these show an AC ground to DC NEG bond and they show no ground from the fuel fill fitting to the gas tank. Not acceptable since the late 60's
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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27-07-2018, 10:57
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,980
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
Let's do the math (no preconceived results in my mind at this time while typing, OK?)
250ah house bank, 1/2 usable, 50% SOC needs 125 ah replaced
Based on experience AND confirmation from trusted boat electrical references and people like Maine Sail, a nominal 400 ah bank has an acceptance of 50-80A shortly after connecting a charge source. So maybe this smaller bank would accept 40-50A.
Linearly, then, a 20A charger would take 125/20 = 6.25 hours.
BUT, since battery acceptance reduces as SOC increases when charging, it'd be easily double if not more, than that time.
With a charger that small, the skipper is NOT taking advantage of the current that his bank can accept and will simply take longer to charge.
HOWEVER, if he is a marina hopper and/or plugs in overnight regularly, it will work. Just takes longer.
That's the how and why.
Your boat, your choice.
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Ideal rule of thumb for a charger is to take the batteries 10hr rate then add the consumers you normally use in habour. The BUT is that the way people use shore power varies a lot. If it is a weekend boat the only thing on Mon - Fri are the pumps so even a 10am charger will have the batteries full by next weekend. At the opposite end a true cruiser living much of the time on the hook has perfectly adequate charging from solar etc so may not even bother to hook-up to the dock (less risk of galvanic corrosion). In the middle may be a 'Marina hopper' with minimal onboard charging who arrives nightly with batteries at 25% DDC and the kids all plugged into screens etc plus A/C. They may need a 50A shore socket! You have to know what you want and design a system to meet it
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27-07-2018, 11:54
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,787
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
Let's do the math (no preconceived results in my mind at this time while typing, OK?)
250ah house bank, 1/2 usable, 50% SOC needs 125 ah replaced
Based on experience AND confirmation from trusted boat electrical references and people like Maine Sail, a nominal 400 ah bank has an acceptance of 50-80A shortly after connecting a charge source. So maybe this smaller bank would accept 40-50A.
Linearly, then, a 20A charger would take 125/20 = 6.25 hours.
BUT, since battery acceptance reduces as SOC increases when charging, it'd be easily double if not more, than that time.
With a charger that small, the skipper is NOT taking advantage of the current that his bank can accept and will simply take longer to charge.
HOWEVER, if he is a marina hopper and/or plugs in overnight regularly, it will work. Just takes longer.
That's the how and why.
Your boat, your choice.
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Agreed Stu. Some assumptions: The OP will have double the control panel size for AC, so I assume and did not see any mention of an expected heavy DC load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999
Because sitting at the dock with lights, fridge. Phone charger ect yiu are draining 10-15-20a? from the battery. Leaving you very little or nothing left for charging. Now your 20a charger is only a 5a charger.
A charger needs to 10-20% of battery size plus all dc loads used on boat.
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Aha! But you mentioned that the charger is way too small for the battery bank. The OP did not mention anything about his DC usage....
I am not disagreeing with neither of you, just putting into perspective.
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27-07-2018, 19:37
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 600
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Re: Wiring my boat from scratch....
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham
That would have been a good system in 1970 but would not support most moder cruising requirements. No reserved battery for engine start, inadequate charging etc. Look at moder 'distributed panel' systems. You have separate distribution/switch panels for each set of services such as pumps and machinery, lights, nav. Make the system much simpler to follow and service plus reduces interference.
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All true, but you have to start somewhere, Id just question is it worth tearing all the wiring out and starting again, or examining the system as a whole knowing what you are looking at, and making decisions from there.
__________________
'give what you get, then get gone'
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