Wiring in a Windlass

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

A side track: If you use a good control pendant instead of foot switches its much handier, and less of a balancing act. Better control also. And, you don't have to core such big holes in your deck like you do for the footswitches. And you can go up to the pulpit and look over to see what's going on etc. After having foot switches I did this on both later boat installations.

On this boat I did not install the foot switches, I have a switch in the cockpit, and a remote. Always use the remote of course, cockpit switch is back up


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[earlmac]

Hi Peter,

According to my calculation, the V700 draws 40 amps (West Marine Catalog) * 12V or 480W. Cross referencing to the West marine catalog, page 540, a #4 wire or larger size should be used for a 10% voltage drop if 65 foot run which is long for your size boat. Recommend using tinted wire cables and red for positive and yellow for negative. Crip your terminals with proper sized lugs. Recommend not using fuses, use circuit breakers. West Marine sell them. Do not want the have a fuse blow and not have a spare with the anchor on the bottom along ways from the fuse replacement store. The purpose of circuit protection is to protect the wiring not the motor or controls. If Lewmar does not recommend a circuit breaker size, recommend using an 80 to 100 amp circuit breaker for the motor wires and a 5-15 amp circuit breaker to the relay controls and foot switches. The motor has starting surge current. For 10-20 bucks you can buy a 2 remote control units on Amazon to complement the foot switches. Recommend also replacing the foot switches, the rubber on them goes bad. over time.

Good luck,

Earl

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by earlmac

Hi Peter,

According to my calculation, the V700 draws 40 amps (West Marine Catalog) * 12V or 480W. Cross referencing to the West marine catalog, page 540, a #4 wire or larger size should be used for a 10% voltage drop if 65 foot run which is long for your size boat. Recommend using tinted wire cables and red for positive and yellow for negative. Crip your terminals with proper sized lugs. Recommend not using fuses, use circuit breakers. West Marine sell them. Do not want the have a fuse blow and not have a spare with the anchor on the bottom along ways from the fuse replacement store. The purpose of circuit protection is to protect the wiring not the motor or controls. If Lewmar does not recommend a circuit breaker size, recommend using an 80 to 100 amp circuit breaker for the motor wires and a 5-15 amp circuit breaker to the relay controls and foot switches. The motor has starting surge current. For 10-20 bucks you can buy a 2 remote control units on Amazon to complement the foot switches. Recommend also replacing the foot switches, the rubber on them goes bad. over time.

Good luck,

Earl

According to Lewmar the V700 draws 45 amps and has a 320 watt motor. 320/12 = 26.66 amps. A 45 amp draw @ 12 volts = 540 watts. Their numbers don't make sense but that is what they say. It comes with a 35 amp breaker. That makes no sense either.

My preference is a fuse because they are usually installed where they should be - very close to the battery or power source. Breakers are often installed a lot farther from the battery for convenience. The fuse is only there for a problem like a short circuit. It should never blow in normal use. It is not there to protect the windlass but to break the circuit before the wire gets red hot in a short. With the proper size wire you can use an appropriately sized fuse. If for example you are using 4 gauge wire it can handle 136 amps in an engine space. With this wire I would use an 80 or 100 amp fuse close to the batteries and the Lewmar breaker could be installed in a convenient place as an on/off switch.

I am not a fan of foot switches for a few reasons. They can corrode and do degrade over time. The other reason is you may want to be looking over the bow when raising the anchor. Easy with a remote - wired or wireless, not so much if you have to keep a toe on the switch.

If your boat is wired with red and black I would stick to those colors. A third color may only confuse someone in the future.

[earlmac]

The power draw is a concern. Maybe this makes better sense. According to the West Martine catalog, page 271, the v700 Lemar draws 40 amps. If you add 5 amps for the relay, the total load goes up to 45A. The cable run is very long for your length boat. If you connect to the most forward house battery, should be battery #1 and shorter run than using the starting battery allowing for less voltage drop and smaller wire gauge size, such as #6. I mounted my windless circuit breaker close to battery 1 but it was more work that using a fuse. I recommend not using fuses but they are cheep and do work. Either one should have a manufactures recommendation on ampacity sizing. If not, you may have to call to find out due to the serge current on starting and overload conditions. If you do, carry several spares aboard for both the motor load and the relay load. Use a heavy duty crimper such as on West Marine page 546 for the terminals. Some times you can borrow a large crimper.

I have both foot switches and wireless for redundancy. The foot switches are for back up but the wireless are used most of the time. If the wireless is dropped in the water or the batteries are dead, still have foot switches.

Good ideas,

Earl

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

According to Lewmar the V700 draws 45 amps and has a 320 watt motor. 320/12 = 26.66 amps. A 45 amp draw @ 12 volts = 540 watts. Their numbers don't make sense but that is what they say. It comes with a 35 amp breaker. That makes no sense either.

My preference is a fuse because they are usually installed where they should be - very close to the battery or power source. Breakers are often installed a lot farther from the battery for convenience. The fuse is only there for a problem like a short circuit. It should never blow in normal use. It is not there to protect the windlass but to break the circuit before the wire gets red hot in a short. With the proper size wire you can use an appropriately sized fuse. If for example you are using 4 gauge wire it can handle 136 amps in an engine space. With this wire I would use an 80 or 100 amp fuse close to the batteries and the Lewmar breaker could be installed in a convenient place as an on/off switch.

I am not a fan of foot switches for a few reasons. They can corrode and do degrade over time. The other reason is you may want to be looking over the bow when raising the anchor. Easy with a remote - wired or wireless, not so much if you have to keep a toe on the switch.

If your boat is wired with red and black I would stick to those colors. A third color may only confuse someone in the future.

it may be that 45 amps is a locked rotor motor stopped rating. They want the breaker to go before that.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

it may be that 45 amps is a locked rotor motor stopped rating. They want the breaker to go before that.

Possibly, but Lewmar isn't very consistent. Their Pro 1000 windlass (700 watts) is stated to draw 50 amps and has a 70 amp breaker. To me this makes more sense.

My numbers are from Lewmar's own catalog, not a retailer's catalog.

[Lepke]

A cockpit switch or a remote are handy if you're solo and pulling the anchor in high wind or current and need to control the boat as soon as the anchor is free.

[exMaggieDrum]

Having lost too many things to King Neptune I am very leery about things that are not tethered or built in. I really think that I would lose a wireless remote while going forward and back and trying to deal with sorting out the anchor's twist and docking. However, as noted, it is easier to look over the rail to see what is happening or to wash down the chain with a remote. It can be a lot of back and forth if you switch is far back from the pulpit. Switches and solenoids do corrode over time. I put m solenoids aft of the chain locker bulkhead in a dry spot, kept my switches and cables protected with a good spray or grease, and kept everything connected tight. The exterior rubbers can wear out eventually (just like everything else on a boat) but they can't fall over the side. And they don't need batteries changed just when you need to get out of Dodge.

I do like cockpit switches at the helm though. But it does add quite a bit of work to install them. If you are doublehanding you shouldn't need them. But that is another whole can of worms discussion we don't need to hijack the thread for.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Peter Nicoll

My spring project is to instal a Lewmar vertical windlass on my Beneteau 331.

Does anyone have advice on whether I should connect it to the house battery (a bank of two dual purpose group 27 lead acid batteries in parallel) or the engine battery which is a group 27 lead acid starter battery). I assume that the engine will be always running when I am using the windlass.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Peter

There are a lot of opinions on this. Here are mine.

RE: Starter vs house battery powered.

Never run a windlass off a start battery. The start battery should have no other load than the starter, so it is always full and ready to start the motor, even if the house bank has been accidentally completely discharged. This is a safety issue.

RE: Dedicated forward vs house battery powered

For boats with a bow thruster forward, it is often necessary to have a battery forward to power it. Obviously, if this is the case, it is wise to run the windlass off the same batteries. A thruster normally only takes a few shots of a few seconds, and is better powered by a "cranking battery" (not the starting battery). A windlass can run for 15 minutes, so is better served by a deep cycle battery. If running both devices off a forward battery and a single battery is desired, I recommend deep cycle.

If there is no battery forward already, one has to evaluate the cost/benefit analysis of doing so:

Pros:
1. Less expensive cabling from the ECHO CHARGER.
(Never connect a forward battery directly to the house bank, via lower gauge wire than one would use to power the windlass from the house bank.)

Cons:

1. Cost of added battery, box, and echo charger.
2. Relatively low use. Battery investment may be better applied to increasing constantly used (and possibly lacking) house bank.
3. When used in an unventilated space connected to occupied space, a sealed battery technology (more expensive than standard lead acid) is necessitated.
4. Maintenance hassle. (Often harder to get at under V-berth, and second location for tools, watering, testing, etc.)
5. Extreme forward location may contribute to hobby-horsing. (Batteries, having significant bulk density, are better as low and centred as practical.)
6. Access under V-berth or in anchor locker may be difficult.

In general, a forward battery (when there is no bow thruster) is only warranted (financially) for boats in excess of 50 feet, where the main house bank is quite far aft. (An actual cost comparison should be performed, and weighed against the cons of forward batteries.)

I have seen a lot of installations (by others), where a forward battery was used, only because it made the windlass installer more money, and was to the detriment of the vessel owner in almost every way.

[mitiempo]

I agree the weight of a battery forward - in addition to the windlass, anchor and chain which have to be there - is not a good idea.

I wouldn't want to sleep over a battery, at least not a flooded one.

If there was a forward battery for a windlass I would not charge it with an Echo Charge. That one time you have to re-anchor 3 times to get it to set properly the battery will be down quite a bit and the Echo will not be replenishing current fast enough to keep up. So from my point of view, not using an Echo means heavier charging cables forward - might as well wire from aft and avoid the initial expense, maintenance, and future replacement cost of the forward battery.

Wired from aft I would also use the house bank, not the start battery. My (and many other's) preferred charging arrangement is for all sources to be wired direct to the house bank, ACR or Echo Charge taking care of the start battery.

I would always - in Lewmar's case at least - use a gauge higher than recommended in the manual. Motors do not appreciate low voltage.

[s/v Jedi]

We have the windlass wired to the house bank even with our length making that more difficult. We have 4/0 cables to a Maxwell VWR3500 which would cost around $1,500 to buy today.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

We have the windlass wired to the house bank even with our length making that more difficult. We have 4/0 cables to a Maxwell VWR3500 which would cost around $1,500 to buy today.

Perfect example of a case where I would be likely to recommend a dedicated battery forward. The battery, box, echo charger, and lighter cable would cost about 25% of that.

However, running it off the house bank, despite higher cost, is still valid (depending on the owners perspective) when other pros and cons are considered.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Perfect example of a case where I would be likely to recommend a dedicated battery forward. The battery, box, echo charger, and lighter cable would cost about 25% of that.

The forward battery needs both maintenance and replacement periodically. The heavy wires do not.

Besides who wants a battery under their bed?