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Old 15-01-2018, 22:41   #1
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Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

I have 2 Rule Automatic 2000gph bilge pumps, they are manually switched by a circuit breaker/switch with indicator led. The switch turns on the pump in manual mode, the led lights, in automatic mode the pumps are supplied thru an "essential circuits" supply, but when the pump is running, in automatic mode the led lights, even though the switch is off, the led in the switch illuminates, this is great. I would like to duplicate this system with another float switch circuit for a fuel transfer pump. Anyone able to supply a circuit diagram; I am away from the boat at present, ant thus unable to have a look.
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Old 15-01-2018, 22:57   #2
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
I have 2 Rule Automatic 2000gph bilge pumps, they are manually switched by a circuit breaker/switch with indicator led. The switch turns on the pump in manual mode, the led lights, in automatic mode the pumps are supplied thru an "essential circuits" supply, but when the pump is running, in automatic mode the led lights, even though the switch is off, the led in the switch illuminates, this is great. I would like to duplicate this system with another float switch circuit for a fuel transfer pump. Anyone able to supply a circuit diagram; I am away from the boat at present, ant thus unable to have a look.
For what it's worth the terms float switch and fuel generally don't go together. Possibly worth a re-think.
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Old 16-01-2018, 01:02   #3
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

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For what it's worth the terms float switch and fuel generally don't go together. Possibly worth a re-think.
I did not ask if the float switch is suitable for diesel, I have an all stainless float switch, with fuel proof gasket, it will be switched thru a 30a delay relay to stop pump cycling due to surge in tank, I have done this a number of times before. Just because you don't know about this subject, dose not mean it is not feasable. I would just like a little led to tell me when the pump is running!!
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Old 16-01-2018, 04:21   #4
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Just connect the led in parallel with the pump. Any time the pump is running the led is on, no matter the source of the power.
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Old 16-01-2018, 08:13   #5
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Just connect the led in parallel with the pump. Any time the pump is running the led is on, no matter the source of the power.
Thats correct but be aware of the polirity and Voltage of the LED. Most require a 1k Ohm or similar in series to limit the current through the LED.
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Old 16-01-2018, 09:32   #6
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Wiring. All the connections inside the dotted box are at the pump control switch while the others are at or near the pump. As mentioned, if the pump running indicator is an LED and requires a resistor to limit the current., it is polarity sensitive. If it doesn't work, just reverse the connections.
The switch is normally a DPST (double pole single throw with center off)
Oh, and I did see one installation where the indicator was wired to the auto connection. In this case the indicator was on when the switch was in the auto position regardless of whether the pump was running.
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Old 16-01-2018, 10:23   #7
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Bobfromcanada

Yes we all agree and your drawing is probably most helpful.

Its what I have for my bilge pump on its own breaker from the battery marked "essentials" so even if the master battery switch is on or off it works. I reaslise that the request was for a fuel transfer pump but I thought I would add that in. The problem with permanently lit LED's is that although the current draw is llow its still a draw, LED's do fade and looking at the switch opostition would give you the same information but not in the dark!
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Old 16-01-2018, 11:45   #8
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Thanks for the reply, the switch on my bilge pumps is a single pole single throw circuit breaker switch, it switches only the manual function. I understand connection of the led in parallel, but there seems to be only the power wires running from the pump. I thought someone might have a "tricky" circuit for lighting the led.
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Old 16-01-2018, 12:01   #9
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Installing a Bilge Pump by Don Casey - BoatTECH - BoatUS

There's a clear diagram there, Bruce. If you connect the LED to ground and then to the hot lead (at the manual "ON" output of the switch shown in this case) it will get power when the switch is turned on, or when the float switch also powers up that wire.

You can also cheat for a buck or two more, and just buy a "twelve volt LED indicator" light. There are 12v LEDs, usually red, that have the correct resistor actually fabricated inside the LED, meant for easy installation in car and boat systems with nothing else required.

Depending on when or how you are letting the fuel transfer itself...I'd think about adding a little piezo buzzer as well, so the automatic transfer demanded attention whenever it happened. Just in case the automatic switch got stuck in the "on" position.
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Old 16-01-2018, 12:11   #10
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
Thanks for the reply, the switch on my bilge pumps is a single pole single throw circuit breaker switch, it switches only the manual function. I understand connection of the led in parallel, but there seems to be only the power wires running from the pump. I thought someone might have a "tricky" circuit for lighting the led.
It's the same idea as the drawing posted. Instead of a 3 way switch, you have:

An "essential circuit" direct from the battery, through a fuse, through the float switch, to the pump.

A second circuit, from a breaker at the main panel, to the output or pump side of the float switch. From the float switch there will only be one wire to the pump.

An LED or lamp installed at the panel will light if either the float switch or breaker activates the pump.
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Old 16-01-2018, 12:59   #11
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

I am as thick as a brick--so I assume your system was the same as mine. In my case the LED lights only when the pump is running, whether or not it is automatic through the float switch, or through the manual over-ride of the float switch.

The LED circuit can be wired directly across the pump without any relay. They take little power.

Crude but effective.

There may be fancier ways of doing it using electronics, but all I need to know is if power is reaching the pump.

An LED lit up does not mean the pump is actually working---just that it is switched on. If you want proof that it is working--you need a small flow indicator set into the discharge line. There are several types available--some work of current trnsmitted through the discharge stream, one uses a small turbine driving a tiny alternator which will also light an LED or show up a reading on a meter. Similar to the lighting system on a gas water heater.

Now--for your fuel level indicator, a standard type of vehicle fuel tank guage such as from a truck might work. These indicate the level of the tanks--not the amount remaining. I do not like electric circuits inside a fuel tank either--so I disconnected mine. I used instead a visual gauge, made from a couple of elbows and some quartz glass tubing I reclaimed from an old electric heater. I could have bought some--but needs must. Anyway--the glass is held between nitryl rubber hoses and the elbows top and bottom of the tank--in case some idiot (myself) accidentally bumps the glass. This way, I am less likely to break it. If you decide to do something like this--put a mesh screen over it. It will look nicer and be safer. If one uses long hoses and accepts the risk of damage to them, this tyoe of gauge can be remote from the tank as long as it is at the same level as the tank.
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Old 16-01-2018, 14:42   #12
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
I have 2 Rule Automatic 2000gph bilge pumps, they are manually switched by a circuit breaker/switch with indicator led. The switch turns on the pump in manual mode, the led lights, in automatic mode the pumps are supplied thru an "essential circuits" supply, but when the pump is running, in automatic mode the led lights, even though the switch is off, the led in the switch illuminates, this is great. I would like to duplicate this system with another float switch circuit for a fuel transfer pump. Anyone able to supply a circuit diagram; I am away from the boat at present, ant thus unable to have a look.
Perhaps if you had supplied the information quoted below fully in your initial post quoted above the response from me and possibly others may have been more relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
I did not ask if the float switch is suitable for diesel, I have an all stainless float switch, with fuel proof gasket, it will be switched thru a 30a delay relay to stop pump cycling due to surge in tank, I have done this a number of times before. Just because you don't know about this subject, dose not mean it is not feasable. I would just like a little led to tell me when the pump is running!!
Yes, with all this extra info the simple answer is as others have said, a simple 12 volt led wired across the terminals of the pump, illuminates only when the pump is energised.
And I assume that you have a Jcar store within striking range, there you can buy inexpensive 12 volt led lights in an array of colours, complete with a small chrome mounting bezel.
As someone else has said and I agree, I don't like power in a fuel tank.
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Old 16-01-2018, 15:22   #13
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Installing a Bilge Pump by Don Casey - BoatTECH - BoatUS

There's a clear diagram there, Bruce. If you connect the LED to ground and then to the hot lead (at the manual "ON" output of the switch shown in this case) it will get power when the switch is turned on, or when the float switch also powers up that wire.

You can also cheat for a buck or two more, and just buy a "twelve volt LED indicator" light. There are 12v LEDs, usually red, that have the correct resistor actually fabricated inside the LED, meant for easy installation in car and boat systems with nothing else required.

Depending on when or how you are letting the fuel transfer itself...I'd think about adding a little piezo buzzer as well, so the automatic transfer demanded attention whenever it happened. Just in case the automatic switch got stuck in the "on" position.
Thanks, this is the type of reply I was hoping for. The manual positive from the pump is also on when the auto function is on.

My diesel transfer float switch has its electrics external to the tank, the reason for the float switch, is simply to turn off the transfer pump, so I do not overfill the main tank when I forget to turn it off. (I know I will forget untill I think "I wonder what that diesel smell is" ) The transfer will be turned on manually, and will be turned off manually if I don't forget, or by the float switch if I do forget,which I will. I have also included a delay relay with a variable delay, which I will set to stop the float switch causing the transfer pump to short cycle. The float switch operates about 100mm from top of tank so a delay of 30 to 60 secs probably will work. The relay resets with each trigger from the float switch. Many thanks for reply.
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Old 17-01-2018, 14:25   #14
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Re: Wiring diagram for bilge pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
Thanks for the reply, the switch on my bilge pumps is a single pole single throw circuit breaker switch, it switches only the manual function. I understand connection of the led in parallel, but there seems to be only the power wires running from the pump. I thought someone might have a "tricky" circuit for lighting the led.
there is no trick. every manual bilge switch will light up if it has a light in it. the power is just backfeeding back up the manual wire, because the manual and auto wires are joined together at the pump.

your fuel one will do the same if it's wired similarly with the auto float output and manual output joining together at the pump. no need to do anything special just buy a switch with an LED in it and connect the ground prong.
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