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Old 07-04-2010, 05:08   #31
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“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” Mark Twain
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:02   #32
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I knew this.

key term is conductors... thanks for the references.

... but... I am going to pay more attention to your comments about:
Attaching a Bridle or Snubber to Anchor Line

... please... !!!
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:20   #33
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I guess this debate will never end. Just like at work. You find that excerpt. I will find another more recent one... this is an update to a 1977 reference to:

These articles: CGD 73-217, 42 FR 5944, Jan. 31, 1977; 42 FR 24739, May 16, 1977, as amended by CGD 80-047 and CGD 80-046, 45 FR 85450, Dec. 29, 1980; CGD
87-009, 53 FR 36972, Sept. 23, 1988

So lets see what CGD 73-217, 42 FR 5944 is:
Out of context:
Please read... too much to cut and paste here:
New Boatbuilders Home Page 33CFR Subpart I--Electrical Systems
And ad nauseam
Section 33CFR183.435
And... 50volts or more...
An led light system is typically around 3.4 volts for 'flood type lights'...

We can do this all day...
Where the nominal circuit voltage of each of three or more
current carrying conductors in a duct, bundle, or cable is 50 volts or
more, the amperages of each of those conductors must not exceed the
value in table 5 multiplied by the correction factor in note 2 to Table
5 for the number of conductors that carry 50 volts or more...

really ... your artical about the snubbed tie off for an anchor is much more interesting!
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:37   #34
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And more... out of context from your references... you should read them and follow through with the references the references make... and since they are all posted on the internet... copy and paste them... and keep on going:
(But at least we have context to argue about that we can quickly reference.)

"When AC and DC conductors are run together, the AC conductors shall be sheathed, bundled, or otherwise kept separate from the DC conductors.” 11.16.4.1.5."

Diodes are used in DC applications.

Lets look at the standards for DC applications... please I get an email for everyone of these: OMG: I still think 3.4 volts is a bit lower that 50 to 600V... still ...
Here is the UL 1426 requirement that the ABYC uses:
"Scope

1.1 These requirements cover electrical cables for boats. The cables are intended for use in marine pleasure craft and consist of a single insulated conductor without a jacket or of two or more insulated conductors with or without an overall nonmetallic jacket. Each boat cable is rated as follows: 50 or 600 V; 60C (140F), 75C (167F), or 90C (194F) wet; and 60C (140F), 75C (167F), 90C (194F), or 105C (221F) dry. Boat cable dry-rated 125C (257F) or 200C (392F) may be investigated. A boat cable so marked has insulation (and jacket if a jacket is used) that are for use where exposed to oil at 60C (140F) and lower temperatures. Boat cables employ stranded copper conductors that are 18 - 4/0 AWG for multiple conductors and 16 - 4/0 AWG for single conductors.
1.2 The construction and performance details of single-conductor 50-volt cables are outlined in the Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc. Standard for Battery Cable (SAE J1127), Low-Tension Primary Cable (SAE J1128), and Recommended Practice for Marine-Engine Wiring (SAE J378). The cables covered in the Standard are in compliance with the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) Standard for Direct-Current (D-C) Electrical Systems on Boats (ANSI/ABYC E-9-1993). The marking and optional jacket requirements for 50-volt cables, and the complete construction, performance, and marking requirements for single- and multiple-conductor boat cables rated 600 volts are stated in these requirements. 1.3 The ampacity of a boat cable shall be as stated in the US Coast Guard regulations Title 33, Chapter I, Parts 183.430 and 183.435 of the CFR"
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:54   #35
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Okay... I could not quote the source, but I did find a vendor that replaced the LED lights in marine equipment, I called them, and they are required by US Coast Guard standards for Nautical Navigational Equipment, to use stranded copper wire. There is not a standard for the AWG that they are required to use. (but after reading your the references, I imagine there is an arguement to made here to say there is a requirement because it is a 'Nautical Navigation Device' but legally the word game could be played here.) Here is their website:
Led indicator light - Shop sales, stores & prices at TheFind.com

Not tinned, nor is it the same for an LED light system in your galley run off of AA battery or solar power ... I am sure the stranded is used for it's durability and the equirement to be handled often... And more than likely from dated engineering data. I would like to add, there must be need to be replaced quite often that a business/industry can be built around these replacement LED's.

So there you go... you win... there is a Standard for LED lights used in Nautical Navigational Equipment.... I concede!
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Old 07-04-2010, 18:47   #36
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Gentlemen, there is a great deal of very informative writing in this thread, and some interesting opinions that clearly differ.

It would really be nice if the testosterone levels could drop just a *tiny* bit....

ya know, just play nice, ok?
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