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Old 13-02-2009, 22:17   #1
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Windlass install question.

Not sure if this goes here or in Electrical.
I have a lofans tigress windless.
I am in the process of moving my battery's from engine room to below the sole in salon. There was a agm battery for the windless that I will use a starting battery, and will put 2 of my 210AH 6 v battereis in the vberth area for the windless. I have 2/0 cable to run from the main bank to the 2 6v batteries.
The PO put the blue sea 150 amp breaker where it was then damaged by the engine room door. Doesn't matter though cause it needs to be moved along with the rest of the panel. But I don't want to run thick cables to the new panel location for the windless.

So the question is, where should I install the 150 amp breaker, and how should I wire the batteries. I figured puttting the breaker in the vberth area near the windless battery, and just connecting the battery banks together with the 2/0 cable, making it one bank. But now I wonder if it needs to be seperated with a battery switch. The distance between each battery bank is about 12 feet.
Any ideas?

Thanks Bob
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Old 14-02-2009, 02:40   #2
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If you do it the way you suggested you need a cct breaker at each end of the cables, as close to the batteries as possible. ABYC says 7 inches.
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Old 14-02-2009, 03:24   #3
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The following diagrams only show the (2 x 6V) V-Berth Windlass Battery bank.
The 2nd Cct. Breaker, DeepFrz mentions, would be at the House Bank (feeding the Windlass bank). Fuses could be substituted.

Some typical Windlass Wiring Diagrams (Lofrans):

http://www.seatechmarineproducts.com...ng_Diagram.jpg

http://www.seatechmarineproducts.com...re_diagram.jpg
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Old 14-02-2009, 03:34   #4
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Gord, I could not read the diagrams. The resolution was too low.
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Old 14-02-2009, 03:43   #5
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Jerry:
Click on he diagram(s) 3 times, use the links, or put on your glasses.
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Old 14-02-2009, 04:13   #6
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Gord,
You don't know how slow our African ISP is. I really like to just click on the images and scale up to 150 per cent. Each diagram was only 70 kb so it just blurred out when I expanded the scale. I guess I will have to click the links and just wait! Our broadband is slower than your old dial-up was when you had a 2400 baud modem!
After double cataract replacement I hardly need glasses. Isn't modern medicine wonderful
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Old 14-02-2009, 04:50   #7
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Here's my comment about windlass electric needs.

I have a Maxwell and ALWAYS have the diesel on and it's high output alternator running the windlass from the large house banks. I had to run some very stout cable forward to serve the windlass. I don't usually even run the windlass for much time even though the motor DOES draw lots of current.

What exactly is accomplished by putting all those heavy batteries forward to run the windlass? And do you have to charge them separately from the house bank with a high output charger? Or do you intend to use an echo type or trickle charge or a separate alternator?

Why a separate battery and all the nonsense which attends? What am I missing?

My large AGM house bank is located CL aft of the engine down low. There is a breaker in a nearby bulkhead and before that a 150a ANL. There are very heavy cables between these devices. Then a pair of 1/0 run forward to the windlass through the bilge. There is also light ga wiring for the switches both at the bow and in the cockpit. The windlass has a solenoid which is mounted below the V berth. The cables were expensive. But cheaper than a pair of batteries and they don't have to be replaced. I have about 500AH of house bank capacity and have found this completely addaquate for live aboard cruising.
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Old 14-02-2009, 11:02   #8
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I have two battery banks, House and Engine/High Draw, located in the center cockpit. A 2/0 cable passes from the High Draw (because the engine is on during anchoring), through the windlass breaker (adjacent to the helm) then twenty feet to the windlass. More cable, but it keeps the weight aft, and the voltage drop low. I traded copper for lead, so to speak.
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Old 14-02-2009, 12:24   #9
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Thanks for the replys all.
Far as having the battery's foreward, the PO had it that way, and from what I understand, to keep VD low and therefore resistant /heat, having a dedicated battery close to the windless is the way to go. This puppy draws 1200 watts and 65 amps underload.

I figured that using the 2/0 cable fused at the main battery side, that the entire bank would charge at the same time as one large bank. There would be 660 amps on the main back and 220 amps in the vberth. The agm would be charged with the echo charger via our Freedom 15 inverter.
I don't believe I can place a 150 amp breaker within 7" of the battery.
On the current location it is several feet away at least. The PO had placed it at the level of the engine room door and the handle broke the breaker handle off, or so I thought, but in removing the breaker the cable connection broke off on the back from the impact as well, or from the weight of the cables.
My kids sleep forward, and so putting the breaker under the vberth is probable the best solution, I'll just make sure it is accessable when needed.
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Old 20-02-2009, 22:29   #10
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The 7" rule is an attempt to ensure that there is a minimum of unprotected conductor. (To a marine electrician, a conductor with no or inadequate circuit protection is a strip heater waiting to happen!)
This rule has some exceptions but Cooper-Bussmann has developed a product that makes the issue moot. The have developed the Marine Battery Rated Fuse that mounts directly on a battery post, bus bar, alternator output stud, etc. They come in 30 to 300 amp denominations and have a 10,000 ampere interrupt capacity (AIC). Here is the link to the Blue Sea Systems site (they are available at West): Terminal Fuse - Blue Sea Systems

Hope this helps.
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Old 20-02-2009, 23:44   #11
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IMO a windlass battery is a waste of money.

When the windlass is operating, it might be drawing 50 - 100A (working load). If you have a windlass battery, the alternator is going to be trying to replace the power used by windlass by feeding the windlass battery, through the wires from say the house bank to the windlass bank.

As a result these wires would be nearly, or the same size as a cable that was just used to power a windlass directly depending on how big your alternator is. Maybe you have a tiny alternator that only puts out 20A and the cables could be sized for only that max current; in that case you might get away with smaller cables.

But larger cables and no battery are a better way to go. And weight in the ends saps performance too. 50# batteries in the bow are not good.
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Old 21-02-2009, 04:51   #12
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Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
The 7" rule is an attempt to ensure that there is a minimum of unprotected conductor. (To a marine electrician, a conductor with no or inadequate circuit protection is a strip heater waiting to happen!)
... Cooper-Bussmann has developed a product that makes the issue moot. The have developed the Marine Battery Rated Fuse ...
... Here is the link to the Blue Sea Systems site (they are available at West): Terminal Fuse - Blue Sea Systems
ABYC E-11.12.1.1.1.
Each ungrounded conductor (Positive) connected to a battery charger, alternator, or other charging source, shall be provided with over current protection within a distance of seven inches (175mm) of the point of connection to the DC electrical system or to the battery.
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Old 21-02-2009, 05:24   #13
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As noted previously, a windlass uses enormous current and so you need some large capacity batteries. Fortunately you don't run them continuously or for long periods.

If the winds are moderate you use the downward force of the chain forming a catenary to move the boat to the anchor so you need be pulling the full mass of the boat with the windlass but simply making the chain taut and then let the catenary work. Once some movement has been established the windlass in not working hard, but it still uses lots of amps.

You should run a high output charging source such as your diesel with a high output alternator when using the windlass. This means that there will be some serious output and this requires large capacity cables - and larger for longer runs.

So how is locating windlass batts getting around the need for the large cables? Why add weight to the bows? Why add capacity in batteries which can't be used for OTHER needs? Suppose the start bank dies, why not have the ability to use what would have been added windlass battery capacity for starting?

The ends of a boat are not the best places to add lots of weight.
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