Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2007, 00:26   #1
MV
Registered User
 
MV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Willard 8 Ton World Cruiser
Posts: 461
Images: 24
Send a message via Yahoo to MV
Willard Rewire Project

Attached are some pictures taken within my engine compartment. On the front end I will be getting an AC / DC panel from Blue Sea (8084) and a battery management switch.

1. I read somewhere here that as long as the wire was fairly supple, it does not need to be replaced. Does that mean the bulk of rewiring a boat is simply finding and replacing the "bad wire", cutting away wires one by one from the existing box, adding some additional length to the old wire, then wiring the new wire to the new panel? Ok... that was terribly worded question. When do you replace all the wire or just part of the wire?

2. The rear of my existing panel is completely exposed to the engine compartment. Again, from what I understand from various posts here about wiring is that the rear of the distribution panel ought to be in an enclosed box so that in bad weather, rolling, or other stuff, water would have a very hard time getting to the distribution panel. Not to belabor the obvious, the fact is as you can see, from the factory there is no cover on the rear. Am I being overly anal about this electrical project?

3. Just to be very clear: In a rewire project, each wire ought to be replaced with the correct gauge, right? What I am wrestling with is the proverbial point of diminishing returns. What are some guidelines here?

4. All observations and suggestions from the pictures are welcome.

Thank-you

Michael
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1141.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	234.9 KB
ID:	2152   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1143.jpg
Views:	218
Size:	259.5 KB
ID:	2153  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1145.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	216.3 KB
ID:	2154  
__________________

__________________
MV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 02:06   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Lancerbye's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ladysmith,BC, Vancouver Island , Canada
Boat: Lancer 44 Motorsailer
Posts: 1,758
Images: 32
You are probably going to get a variety of answers to your question. For a start I would be looking for a better place to put your distribution panel. A place that will have easy access to the breakers with protected access to the back of the panel.
1. Replace the entire wire , do not add more splices. Use new good quality tinned wire of the correct Gauge with respect to the breaker protecting it, or a size bigger. Since this is a rewire do it right don't cut corners. If you are not totally confident about this wiring project, get qualified help. You don't want to burn your boat up.
__________________

__________________
The basis of accomplishment is in never quitting
Mengzi Meng-tse
Lancerbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 20:10   #3
MV
Registered User
 
MV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Willard 8 Ton World Cruiser
Posts: 461
Images: 24
Send a message via Yahoo to MV
Lancerbye

What makes you say I ought to move the distribution panel? I can imagine it right on the portside where those Lexan plastic sliders are, but what would that accomplish? The panel as it is now in the photograph is about 2.5 feet from the batteries. I thought the panel was supposed to be as close as possible to the battery. Is that not why it was placed where it is to begin with?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2129.jpg
Views:	266
Size:	222.5 KB
ID:	2160  
__________________
MV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 22:26   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Quote:
Am I being overly anal about this electrical project?
Absolutely not. There are two things you want to be working on your boat in the case of bad weather. The engine and the electrical. It is most likely that either one would fail in the event of bad weather. It's just Murphies law.
You need to look at the wiring from two perspectives. Is your wiring protected from fire and is it isolated enough from being the source to start a fire. From the photo's you have shown, I would say no to both those questions. So when you layout your new wiring, you need to think of protection and support.
The next question you need to ask, in the event of an emergency, can I trace a fault through the system and find why my piece of electronic equipment has failed to operate. It maybe the VHF or Radar for instance and the weather and Sea maybe lousy. So each wire needs to be layed out in such a way and in a colour or tagged so that you can trace it through the boat.
As for the quality of the wire itself. If the insulation has become hard and brittle, it is likely heat has been at play. Either the conductor is not sized big enough, or the engine compartment has been too hot or something similar. If the wire flexes and the insulation is not cracked and the conductor has not corroded, then sure you can re-use the wiring.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 23:13   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
Lancerbye's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ladysmith,BC, Vancouver Island , Canada
Boat: Lancer 44 Motorsailer
Posts: 1,758
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV View Post
Lancerbye

What makes you say I ought to move the distribution panel? I can imagine it right on the portside where those Lexan plastic sliders are, but what would that accomplish? The panel as it is now in the photograph is about 2.5 feet from the batteries. I thought the panel was supposed to be as close as possible to the battery. Is that not why it was placed where it is to begin with?
Sorry about the relocation comment, from the first pictures I didn't realize where the front of the panel was. Replacing the wires one at a time (no splices) and using PVC wire ways to tidy up and protect the wires you can end up we a good solid installation. Adding a removable back panel would also be a worthwhile addition.
__________________
The basis of accomplishment is in never quitting
Mengzi Meng-tse
Lancerbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 23:41   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Here on the forum, GordMay has supplied a few charts in the Photo Gallery (see below) which may come in handy. And ditto to what Alan had to say.

But the things that are important are that the wires are the proper size for their length and have the proper size fuse for each piece of equipment. The wires can be over size but the fuse should not.

Organizing the wires IS another important factor. A nice clean bundle keeps them from getting loose and out of the way of other equipment. Personally I like to tag each end of the wires so when I'm doing an inspection or troubleshooting, I know which wire is what.

As well, make up a list of the numbers and keep them available in a log with their size and length. So, if one were to change out or upgrade a piece of equipment, they would know its rating.

Having the batteries close to the panel is not necessary but having the proper size cable to them is. Wires should be supported or insulated to prevent chafe and should be protected if running thru storage compartments. Along the under edges of seats, ribs or framing works well. Avoid bilges if possible.



http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=1850&c=517

http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=1849&c=517

http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=1650&c=517

http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=1648&c=517

At the bottom of the page for the link below is a chart to make entries to get results for voltage drop. Just fill in the blanks. The chart above it will give wire sizes.

American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits

And another simple chart
Wire Gauge Tables

Enjoy..................._/)
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2007, 03:37   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
My favourite Wire Size Chart gives an Amp/Feet column c/w explanations.
This chart can be used to size wire for any Amperage over any distance of cable.

Wire Size Chart 1
http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...=500&userid=79

Wire Size Chart 2
http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...=500&userid=79
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 00:00   #8
MV
Registered User
 
MV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Willard 8 Ton World Cruiser
Posts: 461
Images: 24
Send a message via Yahoo to MV
Is there any advantage to using round boat cable as opposed to flat boat cable?
__________________
MV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 00:59   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Lancerbye's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ladysmith,BC, Vancouver Island , Canada
Boat: Lancer 44 Motorsailer
Posts: 1,758
Images: 32
Round cable signifies twisted pairs of wires which are normally used for equipment that uses digital type communications. If the application involves networking systems you will want to use the round cables (prevents crosstalk). If you are just looking at simple DC or AC power distribution it doesn't matter so long as the wire inside the cable is equivalent.
__________________
The basis of accomplishment is in never quitting
Mengzi Meng-tse
Lancerbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 02:55   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
“Boat Cable”, UL Standard 1426, is available in round or flat configurations. Pacer Marine & others notwithstanding, I’ve never found much advantage to round cables.
http://www.pacermarine.com/catalogparts/wirecable.pdf
Marine Wire Information - sponsored by Allied Wire & Cable, Inc.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 03:55   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
If you are re wiring, an emergency bypass may be worth considering. At its simplest it is a method of connecting a radio and lead light direct to a battery via its own fuse. In the event of "severe problems" you shut the whole lot down and still have the facility to communicate and see. Bilge pump(s) should be on their own circuit, separately fused,switched and wired direct to the batteries.
__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 23:51   #12
Registered User
 
blahman's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Charlotte Harbor, FL
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 301
Images: 50
Michael,

Check out my old thread of rewiring our W32:
Engine Bay Makeover - Rewiring - Including Engine Removal!

Here is a slideshow with all of the pictures in a "before/after" setup:
trombahonker's slideshow on Flickr

I have to take more to show our most recent progress (such as the engine being in! I'll also take pictures showing the cold cathode florescent lights I made and have installed.

We're STILL not done. But that's more due to my having been off at college, unable to work on the boat. Plus we kept doing the "Well, while we have this apart, we may as well do that, too..." The wiring is done now; we just have to get the engine realigned, the last bit of organizing in our new enclosed electrical panel finished, and the boat back in order. Then we'll be done (with this project at least).

In short:
DO use BC5W2 wire.
DO use all new wire from the terminal blocks to your new panel.
DO replace wires running out into the boat that need it.
DO zip tie the hell out of stuff to keep it orderly.
DO use heat shrink terminals EVERYWHERE.

DO NOT judge wire on rigidity. Test and inspect.
DO NOT allow yourself to be sloppy or take short cuts. Most of the suggestions in the acclaimed books are great. Follow them!
DO NOT skimp on quality of wire and terminals. Get a wholesale account with Pacer Marine and your project will join the realm of affordable.

Follow these, read Calder and/or Casey and you'll be golden.

And take loads of pictures to share with us.

Feel free to message me with any questions.

Fair leads,
Aaron N.
__________________
"Only those who see the invisible can do the impossible."

W32 #482 Asia Marie


blahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2008, 01:12   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hobart Australia
Boat: Hartley RORC 32
Posts: 119
Wow blahman the wiring you have done and other works are just fantastic
so neat and well prepped and finished off
hope mine comes up as good
cheers
hooked
__________________
hooked on water is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2008, 13:23   #14
MV
Registered User
 
MV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Willard 8 Ton World Cruiser
Posts: 461
Images: 24
Send a message via Yahoo to MV
Blahman

I am using all new wiring -- boat cable flat stuff. I have already started buying the components. And the good part is that I will be able to work with the electrician on the project. I am ordering 350 feet of cable (between AC and DC) as well as several Blue Sea components (8084 and 8686). I am going to stick with 14-2 and 14-3 wire. This should all be done within 3 weeks. And -- I switched over to all AGMs.
__________________
MV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2008, 13:55   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
MV, those look like good choices. Good luck with your project and please post some pictures when you get started and keep us informed of your progress.
__________________

__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
willard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baba 30 vs Willard 30 with Mariner 31 / 32 (Just to Confuse Things) Architeuthis Monohull Sailboats 17 29-08-2011 21:19
My New Project CaptainK Construction, Maintenance & Refit 29 09-08-2010 17:18
Greetings + my project Marco Meets & Greets 8 27-02-2009 17:28
Willard Keel Bolts MV Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 29-08-2007 21:40
Willard Eight Ton 30' ??? jpcraw Monohull Sailboats 3 29-06-2007 18:33



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.