Why do auto-pilots fail on long trips??

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

I had not reached those posts when I replied.

However, thank you for making my point. When companies reduce their names to initials there is a risk that nobody has a clue what they make and therefore no reason to buy it.

RR might be an exception in one direction and GM in another.

Conversely, some companies have such dreadful names that abbreviation is the only sane choice. LG?

You're online. CPT plus an additional search phrase like "boat, autopilot, yacht, sail) brings it right up in Google. Unless they called themselves The High Powered Wheel Autopilot Company, how is a brand name different than initials?

Matt

[Jim Cate]

A wind vane might be even better, but problematic fitting onto a large, center cockpit boat, with the exception of the Hydrovane.

Not quite correct. Add AutoHelm (sold by Scanmar) and Windpilot... both sell auxiliary rudder vane models, and both have many successful installations on center cockpit boats. Or you can do as I did on our previous boat and build one yourself, saving a couple of kilobucks and learning a lot about wind steering along the way!

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Hi,DumnMad,

Ours have failed from being worn already, prior to the long voyage. We once hand steered, watch on watch for three days. It surely makes you appreciate the AP, or wind steering! Jim was sometimes able to get them going again. Do not count on manufacturer's support.

On Jim's Yankee 30, when the AP failed 3 days out of Kauai on the way to San Francisco, Jim rigged sheet to tiller steering, via a Rube Goldberg (Heath Robinson to the Aussies) setup involving all the spare blocks and a lot of surgical tubing he had brought along for the purpose.

For those of you who've not used wind steering, it is WONDERFUL. It is silent. It consumes no power except the wind. And yes, just like an autopilot, it requires that the sails be trimmed properly. It can save your bacon someday. It is wonderful.

Ann

[patprice]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Commercial guys don't seem to have many problems, use what they use, not what weekend yachties buy at whitworths.

"Commercial guys" generally drive power boats that are much "easier" to steer than a yacht in a seaway. And therefore are also a lot less demanding of the autopilot.

[lateral]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Plus, the CPTs hold their value well if in working condition. I bought a used one, sent it back to CPT to have it checked and maintenance done, and kept it as a back-up for three years... loosing only $250 on the whole deal when done. Not bad insurance.

Matt

Didn't you have a Raymarine type 2 linear as a primary AP? Maybe I'm confusing forumites.
If so, how did that work out over the three years?

[billknny]

Originally Posted by patprice

"Commercial guys" generally drive power boats that are much "easier" to steer than a yacht in a seaway. And therefore are also a lot less demanding of the autopilot.

I very much disagree... A cruising sailboat, properly designed and sailed, should be able to hold course at sea pretty much on its own on any point of sail with the possible exception of dead downwind. An AP really should have very little to do if it and the sails are trimmed well. Most boats can do this close hauled, by the time you get off to a beam reach, you need a good boat with a good sailor to do it.

Note the word "should". Many modern boats can not balance in such a way, and many modern sailors do not know what a balanced boat would feel like if it could.

I know of which I speak. I sailed a 40 foot ketch 800 miles across the Pacific without a working AP. This was not a funky full keeled boat, but a standard keel and skeg rudder configuration. We steered by occasional subtle adjustments of the mizzen sheet with the wheel tied off.

[Scaramanga F25]

When in Newport helping to prepare a boat for the Singled Handed Round the World race I asked several skippers about self steering. Many of these 45 to 60 footer skippers of tiller steered for simplicity and quicker reaction, they ALL had over a half dozen tiller pilots.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by lateral

Didn't you have a Raymarine type 2 linear as a primary AP? Maybe I'm confusing forumites.
If so, how did that work out over the three years?

Our Raymarine Type 2 linear drive is 20 years old, has two circumnavigations, plus, under it's belt. It has been repaired three times in over 100,000 miles. Still going...

We carry a spare because in the middle of the ocean... your options are limited.

[lateral]

I have the type 1 as I'm only 6000kg.
I'm thinking of putting a hall effect sensor on my feed to LD and have it in the cockpit as a backup for instant sail balance check.
Haven't installed AP as yet. Still enjoying helming.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

For those of you who've not used wind steering, it is WONDERFUL. It is silent. It consumes no power except the wind. And yes, just like an autopilot, it requires that the sails be trimmed properly. It can save your bacon someday. It is wonderful.

+1 on that. I love our windvane (Aries). It is our primary self-steerer, but we also use a tiller pilot (Raymarine SPX-5GP) for when the wind is low, which most often means we’re motoring.

Even though our TP is way under-sized for our boat, it has never yet let us down. But this is probably due to the fact that we don’t ask much of it. Still, it has managed to steer us through some pretty ugly stuff. Proper trim is critical with both.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi,DumnMad,

For those of you who've not used wind steering, it is WONDERFUL. It is silent. It consumes no power except the wind. And yes, just like an autopilot, it requires that the sails be trimmed properly. It can save your bacon someday. It is wonderful.

Ann

You left out one other positive aspect of a mechanical windvane... they are fascinating to watch work! Or maybe that is just my engineer heart...

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by lateral

Didn't you have a Raymarine type 2 linear as a primary AP? Maybe I'm confusing forumites.
If so, how did that work out over the three years?

We had a type 1 as we were around 6000kgs too. Never a hiccup from that wonderful device... quiet, low power consumption, and more than strong enough for our spade rudder boat. I really wish I could have installed one on this boat, but with our drive being exposed to weather, I needed a hydraulic drive that was made for that duty.

We carried a spare linear drive too (and emergency rudder), but never had to use any of the back-ups.

Matt

[SteveSadler]

I'm afraid of such a scenario, and asked a delivery skipper his op for spare parts to bring.
He said he never had one fail, not that they can't but he doesn't let it work that hard. always check the rudder indicator and reduce sail as prudent. Listening to the ap work gives you an idea how hard its working.
My boat has 3 settings on the ap. 1 for flat water, 2 for most sailing conditions and 3 for difficult conditions. I use 2 all the time just so it doesn't work that hard.
When we sailed from Gibraltar to Canaries last June, we had 35kts DDW,huge seas from a distant low, and we hand steered for the fun of surfing over 10kts, but at night we rolled it up till only a tiny piece of genoa showed and settled for 5 kts while the ap struggled to keep us within 30 degrees of our course.

[Alberg30Shill]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

There's what's been mentioned:
- oversize everything; wiring, motor, parts, etc.
- balance the boat via proper sail trim, & moving onboard "ballast" (heavy items) around


Also, build redundancy into your self steering. Such as a 2nd AP of the same make & model. Either operating in sleep mode along with the one which is driving the boat. Or to have as a spare for when the #1 pilot fails. And have spare parts onboard to repair the failed unit while the other one is driving.


Plus, of course, there are windvanes. They require no power, & can be as simple as $20 DIY affairs, to a homemade, purpose built vane, or one purchased off the shelf. Like a Monitor, or Cape Horn. And as a perk, their maintenance requirements are pretty dang low, as is their failure/breakage rate.

Also, you can attach a tiller pilot to the wind input part of a cape horn wind vane and it will steer a compass course drawing only milliamps.

[Jim Cate]

When we sailed from Gibraltar to Canaries last June, we had 35kts DDW,huge seas from a distant low, and we hand steered for the fun of surfing over 10kts, but at night we rolled it up till only a tiny piece of genoa showed and settled for 5 kts while the ap struggled to keep us within 30 degrees of our course.

Perhaps if you had struck the main and used only a head sail, life for you and the AP would have been better. Sure is in our boat, with a sorta similar rig and hull shape.

Jim