Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-09-2012, 11:05   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: Which alternator???

Not sure what you mean by "Larger ALternator" though...? Most the frames I see up to 100 amp or so are the same frame, same fan etc....?
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2012, 11:09   #17
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,063
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Not sure what you mean by "Larger ALternator" though...? Most the frames I see up to 100 amp or so are the same frame, same fan etc....?
In output.. You can buy often the same case in 80A -140A +.. My builder will build the same case in 80A - 160A. The 120A version will run cooler at 80A than an 80A asked to run at 80A....

I've measured the temps on the same cases in differing sizes numerous times and when run at less than full output they run cooler than the smaller one at full output despite being in the same case and pumping out the same current..
__________________

__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2012, 11:26   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
In output.. You can buy often the same case in 80A -140A +.. My builder will build the same case in 80A - 160A. The 120A version will run cooler at 80A than an 80A asked to run at 80A....

I've measured the temps on the same cases in differing sizes numerous times and when run at less than full output they run cooler than the smaller one at full output despite being in the same case and pumping out the same current..
Good info... kinda hard to logic out for me why it would run cooler..
re the "belt adjustment"...I guess the regulator adjustment just changes the field right. Hmm.... maybe the answer for some would be one of those NAPA heater fan rheostats... "dial it in to max belt grip at any time you want". Cruising Equiptment CO use to sell a panel that had a big rheostat on it and some other frills. It was a manual regulator. Then they came out with the one with the built in regulator option.... probably because people forgot to turn the thing down!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2012, 19:18   #19
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,882
Guys thank you very much for the education.
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 05:41   #20
Registered User
 
Mattyb's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gladstone QLD
Boat: Alan Pape Ketch
Posts: 223
Just a thought. Why can't I just hook up this altenaator straight to my battery? Isn't that how most alternators charge the engine batteries? Am sure it can't be that easy!!
__________________
Mattyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 05:52   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
You don't have to pay Balmar prices but there are only two companies I know of building small case alts in the 130D style and with the dual internal fans they cool extremely well. That case style from either Electromaax or Balmar are my first choice these days when a small case alt needs to pump out high current for extended periods.
Having in the past year bought both equivalent Electromaax and Balmar 130D style alternators, there is no difference in price between them. The Delco 130D alternators are much less expensive, but I do not know of the differences between the Delco and EM/Balmar - the Delco is also dual internal fans and parts for it fit the Balmar 6-series (just bought a new pulley for a Delco that was 1/4 the price of the same pulley from Balmar). Perhaps the Delco is not externally regulated and would need some modifications?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 06:21   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyb View Post
Just a thought. Why can't I just hook up this altenaator straight to my battery? Isn't that how most alternators charge the engine batteries? Am sure it can't be that easy!!
Yes, your alternator should be connected to the batteries - the house bank preferably. But your posts seem to confuse alternator with regulator.

Assuming the Hitachi "regulator" you have is actually the original Hitachi "alternator" from the engine, then it seems reasonable that it should be easily re-installable as long as the PO did not do anything silly like cut off the wiring harness or remove the mounting brackets.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 06:54   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Which alternator???

The Hitachi part number referenced in the OP is a 35 amp internally regulated alternator and according to Spider Marine it is the OEM spec for 2GM motors.

100 New Hitachi 12v 35 Amp Alternator Lr135-74: Alternators &amp Alternator

With the additional battery capacity you have I agree that 35 amps is pretty weak but I also agree that a 100 amp alternator is a lot of load for a 20 hp engine.

It appears the PO was planning to install a non-internally regulated alternator and with the external regulator in hand you have the same hurdle he had in figuring out a reliable mounting system and sourcing an appropriately sized alternator.

It seems with the 35 amp in hand you could use the original brackets and pulleys, wire it up and figure out the change out later.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 07:05   #24
Registered User
 
Mattyb's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gladstone QLD
Boat: Alan Pape Ketch
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif
The Hitachi part number referenced in the OP is a 35 amp internally regulated alternator and according to Spider Marine it is the OEM spec for 2GM motors.

100 New Hitachi 12v 35 Amp Alternator Lr135-74: Alternators &amp Alternator

With the additional battery capacity you have I agree that 35 amps is pretty weak but I also agree that a 100 amp alternator is a lot of load for a 20 hp engine.

It appears the PO was planning to install a non-internally regulated alternator and with the external regulator in hand you have the same hurdle he had in figuring out a reliable mounting system and sourcing an appropriately sized alternator.

It seems with the 35 amp in hand you could use the original brackets and pulleys, wire it up and figure out the change out later.
Hit the nail on the head. I am mainly trying to just make use of what I have available especially the "next step regulator" that is already installed. The interesting thing is I went out for three days in the islands this weekend and using my interphase probe, chart plotter and fridge my batteries never seemed to drop off to much and were at max at the end of each day. Maybe the alternator isn't a big priority after all
__________________
Mattyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 07:05   #25
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,063
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Having in the past year bought both equivalent Electromaax and Balmar 130D style alternators, there is no difference in price between them. The Delco 130D alternators are much less expensive, but I do not know of the differences between the Delco and EM/Balmar - the Delco is also dual internal fans and parts for it fit the Balmar 6-series (just bought a new pulley for a Delco that was 1/4 the price of the same pulley from Balmar). Perhaps the Delco is not externally regulated and would need some modifications?

Mark
The share some parts with the 130D but the Balmar and E-Max alts have bigger bearings, hand wound 14GA stators and rotors (machine windings are "tighter" and don't dissipate heat as well), a better grade of magnet wire, and are set up for both internal and external regulation. The front case is also custom with the "universal adjustment ear" as are the back cases. Diodes are also heavier duty and they meet marine ignition protection standards.

If you have a Balmar 6 series or E-Max a used 130D can be a good spare, if you don't need the universal ear...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 13:52   #26
Registered User
 
jeremiason's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Punta Gorda, Florida
Boat: Sea Ray 270
Posts: 1,427
Images: 2
Send a message via ICQ to jeremiason Send a message via Yahoo to jeremiason Send a message via Skype™ to jeremiason
Re: Which alternator???

We retrofit an ElectroMaax 160 alternator, external regulator and surpentine belt kit with new pullies before we started cruising.

They design the new pullies to make the alternator turn at higher speeds when in low rpms. The serpentine belt does not slip or cause dust and it lasts... well forever.

Everything bolted right on our Yanmar 75, which is obviously larger than your, but they make smaller set up and are happy to advise what alternator is best for your engine, without causing drag.
__________________
Tom Jeremiason
Punta Gorda, Florida

jeremiason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 17:39   #27
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Which alternator???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyb View Post
Hit the nail on the head. I am mainly trying to just make use of what I have available especially the "next step regulator" that is already installed. The interesting thing is I went out for three days in the islands this weekend and using my interphase probe, chart plotter and fridge my batteries never seemed to drop off to much and were at max at the end of each day. Maybe the alternator isn't a big priority after all
If you are weekend sailing the 200w solar and 400w wind are probably plenty of power. The nice thing about the engine driven alternator is that it is "always" there if you have a bad run of days in terms of sun and wind.

It sounds like the PO was on a good path to a good system. If it were me I would be looking at

a) a ~60-75 amp externally regulated alternator to match up with the regulator I have knowing I still have to fabricate mounts and pulleys or...
b) Give spider marine a call and find out if there is a ~50-60 amp internally regulated alternator in the same frame as the hitachi that would bolt right in. The sell the external regulator to recoup some cost and keep the 35 amp in stores as a back up.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 19:19   #28
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,882
Finally, got to installing the Balmar 614 and de-rating my 100 amp alternator to +/-60 amps. The derating had a positive impact on the performance of the older diesel engine on Cynosure. She picked up almost a knot, the engine did not sound stressed and she did not blow whit "stress" smoke at a cruise RPM.

The next step is undoing the derating, and setting up the small engine switch. This will allow me to derate most of the time and increase to 100 amps if needed. Also there is a warning buzzer to set up...

Great advice guys

Bill
__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 10:12   #29
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 132
Re: Which alternator???

Have any of y’all all about installing a cutout switch on your throttle set so that when you go to full throttle it will cut the field current to the alternator. Just my two cents, Mike.
__________________

__________________
Florida Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternator

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.