Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-11-2015, 14:55   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle
Boat: Tartan 30 & Columbia 26
Posts: 170
Images: 2
When would you switch to Battery 1?

I've got the 2 battery setup on the Tartan, Battery 1 is the starting battery and 2 is the house battery. These are connected to the basic battery selector switch with Off, 1, 2 and Both.

It struck me the other day that I've never had the switch on 1. When starting the engine and under engine power, the switch is at Both. This puts full juice to the starter, and also uses the alternator to charge both batteries. When the engine is off and using juice for lights, instrumentation, whatever, I switch it to 2, so 1 is always fresh for engine starting.

When would someone want to have the switch in the 1 position? Why?
__________________

__________________
wristwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2015, 15:13   #2
Registered User
 
DaveC's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Boat: Belliure Endurance 35
Posts: 124
Send a message via Yahoo to DaveC
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

When battery 2 goes dead. If you put it in both at this point then you drain battery one into battery 2, especially if battery 2 has a shorted cell or something, which reduces or eliminates the energy to start the motor.

I always start on one or the other and then only switch to both when the engine is running.
__________________

__________________
DaveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2015, 17:29   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central California
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 873
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Here's my answer:

1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings | SailboatOwners.com Forums
__________________
Bill
...........................................
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy ribeye.
jongleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 07:19   #4
Registered User
 
NewMoon's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Holladay, UT
Boat: Nordic Tugs 37
Posts: 285
Images: 13
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Here's how we've done it, for 17 years and 6,500 engine hours:

We have a single main engine and two battery banks. No VSR/ACR, and no generator. One bank is "starting" type (high Cranking Amps, but low Amp Hour capacity). The other "House" bank is "deep cycle" type (modest Cranking Amps, but high Amp Hour capacity).

Everything in the boat, except for bilge pumps and propane sniffer, runs off whichever bank the main battery switch (1-BOTH-2-OFF) is connected to.

We stay switched to the House bank 99+ percent of the time. When we want to start our diesel, we switch to the Start bank. After the engine is started and we've retrieved anchor with the windlass (another high current draw), we stay switched to Start for maybe 10-15 minutes, so that the start bank gets well recharged.

Then we switch (through BOTH, not through OFF) back to House. After an hour or two with the engine running, the House bank is well recharged. We don't do any other switching, until the next time we need to start up. This is not too difficult to remember, so we haven't felt the need for the more automatic VSR/ACR.

We've never had dead batteries. We've had to use BOTH to start only occasionally, when the Start bank was beginning to get old, or maybe not recharged well enough.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tugs 37)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
NewMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:17   #5
Registered User
 
Oceandeep's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Hudson 50
Posts: 89
Images: 2
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Richard,

You make a great point about being careful when you switch from Battery 1 to Battery 2. I've been told by an Electrician in the Boatyard that switching thru the Off position can cause an electrical surge that could blow out your regulator or other electronics .
__________________
"all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by"
Oceandeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:33   #6
Registered User
 
NewMoon's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Holladay, UT
Boat: Nordic Tugs 37
Posts: 285
Images: 13
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Can indeed - did that once with engine running, and blew one of the alternator's diodes. Fortunately I carried spares.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tugs 37)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
NewMoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:33   #7
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Boat: Alerion Express 38 Yawl
Posts: 269
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

When I worked at West Marine, we had a lot of customers who would have a two battery system, but would still end up with one of the following problems:

1. Both batteries dead; can't start engine.
2. Damaged alternator.

I would argue that the primary problem is one of having to switch the battery switch at almost any time in the boat's existence. It's too easy to forget and leave the switch in the Both position, and too easy to turn it one click too far and leave the alternator open-circuited.

The answer, I believe, is to use a voltage controlled relay like the Blue Sea ACR (Automatic Charging Relay) or the variety of other products from BEP or Mastervolt that accomplish the same thing. High voltage? Batteries are paralleled. Low voltage? Batteries are isolated.

On a "simple" boat (one engine, two battery banks, no generator, etc.) this is best accomplished with the Dual Circuit battery switch, which allows the engine battery to be connected to the engine/starter, and the house battery to be connected to the house loads, but with no interconnection. Use the ACR to charge both banks when there is a charger (alternator, inverter/charger, solar, shorepower) in the circuit.

I know the purists will worry that you shouldn't charge batteries in parallel, but in the real world, on boats that are common in harbors around the U.S., this system really works.

Cheers, and smooth seas,

Chuck Hawley
__________________
Chuck Hawley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:49   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

When would someone want the switch in # 1 position?
Just to charge #1, or if you need the combined voltage from both banks for some reason.
Personally. I would start the engine on the house bank, let the initial 15-20 minutes of high amp charging go there and after maybe 1/2 hour or so then switch to all or just #1 for a bit to recharge the start battery.
As mentioned above there are cheap small devices that allow automatic charging of the starter battery without having to switch. Remembering to switch can sometimes lead to problems. Like: you forget to switch to All after anchoring etc. The fridge pulls both batteries flat overnight.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:50   #9
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,149
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

I never change the battery switch with the engine running (charging)...ever! Argue all you like, but I won't be blowing any diodes. Its a simple rule to remember and follow.

I never switch to BOTH. The bad battery will drain the good. Both is just for the rare emergency when neither battery has enough juice to start the engine. My goal is to never get to that point.

I use one battery for everything, and keep the second fully charged as a backup, for when the first might be dead, short, or fail. Once in a while I'll use the second battery for a bit, then fully charge it, just to be sure its working too.

I constantly monitor the volts, both under load and under no load. That way I know what the volts should be, and I'll know when there's a problem before I get into trouble.

In general, the second (backup) battery lasts a year longer than the first. The last thing you want is both batteries ending their usable lives at the same time.

LED lights help...kids like to leave lights on all night. I almost never plug into shorepower, and I have no solar or wind power...the engine makes more than enough power for me.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Compromise 061.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	400.5 KB
ID:	113712  
__________________
hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 09:53   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central California
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 873
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
Here's how we've done it, for 17 years and 6,500 engine hours:

We have a single main engine and two battery banks. No VSR/ACR, and no generator. One bank is "starting" type (high Cranking Amps, but low Amp Hour capacity). The other "House" bank is "deep cycle" type (modest Cranking Amps, but high Amp Hour capacity).

Everything in the boat, except for bilge pumps and propane sniffer, runs off whichever bank the main battery switch (1-BOTH-2-OFF) is connected to.

We stay switched to the House bank 99+ percent of the time. When we want to start our diesel, we switch to the Start bank. After the engine is started and we've retrieved anchor with the windlass (another high current draw), we stay switched to Start for maybe 10-15 minutes, so that the start bank gets well recharged.

Then we switch (through BOTH, not through OFF) back to House. After an hour or two with the engine running, the House bank is well recharged. We don't do any other switching, until the next time we need to start up. This is not too difficult to remember, so we haven't felt the need for the more automatic VSR/ACR.

We've never had dead batteries. We've had to use BOTH to start only occasionally, when the Start bank was beginning to get old, or maybe not recharged well enough.
There are still many "break before make"
switches out there. If you choose to do
this procedure all the time (I don't know
why you would), make sure your switch
is "make before break."
__________________
Bill
...........................................
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy ribeye.
jongleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 10:38   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Nova Scotia
Boat: S&S Loki Yawl 38'
Posts: 89
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Lots of good points being discussed. As long as I am aboard and monitoring, I keep the battery switch in the Both position. It is possible to have a bad #1 and not know it if you don't use the battery. Though the batteries are combined I would still notice that there was something wrong with the #1 via the voltage drop, . It happened once in the past that I switched to my #1 to use as a backup and found that the battery had deteriorated to the point that it did not have enough remaining capacity to start the engine. Fortunately the house bank though down was plenty to start the engine. I do think that a system that forces you to test all batteries on a regular basis is a good idea. My engine battery is about 1/3 of the total capacity and batteries prefer not being discharged deeply, hence using all batteries should extend the life some. Now if I know that the house bank has been deeply discharged, I will start on the house bank and let it charge separately for a while before switching to both. I do this to reduce the alternator heating.
One other thing I might mention. It does not take a large Lithium battery to start a diesel. My engine battery went bad and I finished the season with just the house bank and a few charged 3S lithium poly batteries which I had tested to verify they would indeed start the engine. I really hope that the pricing of the Marine Lithium batteries drops, the capacity increase for the same weight is awesome.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by wristwister View Post
I've got the 2 battery setup on the Tartan, Battery 1 is the starting battery and 2 is the house battery. These are connected to the basic battery selector switch with Off, 1, 2 and Both.

It struck me the other day that I've never had the switch on 1. When starting the engine and under engine power, the switch is at Both. This puts full juice to the starter, and also uses the alternator to charge both batteries. When the engine is off and using juice for lights, instrumentation, whatever, I switch it to 2, so 1 is always fresh for engine starting.

When would someone want to have the switch in the 1 position? Why?
__________________
Lokiyawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 11:53   #12
Registered User
 
DaveC's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Boat: Belliure Endurance 35
Posts: 124
Send a message via Yahoo to DaveC
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
When battery 2 goes dead. If you put it in both at this point then you drain battery one into battery 2, especially if battery 2 has a shorted cell or something, which reduces or eliminates the energy to start the motor.

I always start on one or the other and then only switch to both when the engine is running.
To clarify, I don't leave it in both. I just only switch to both when the engine is running to charge both banks. I use battery 1 for a couple weeks, then use battery 2 for a couple weeks, just so they both get used. My boat is wired so everything runs off whichever battery is selected via the switch. The starter terminals I connect directly to the battery I'm using currently, bypassing the switch. Once I start the motor, I switch to both to give the dormant battery some charging as well. Before I stop the engine I switch back to the battery I'm currently using.

-Dave
__________________
DaveC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 14:20   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: East shore Mobile Bay AL
Boat: ODAY 28
Posts: 374
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

I have a two battery system, both batteries are the same group 27, I use battery one, for house on my first day of sailing , them I use battery two for house the next time I sail.
seems to work for me....
__________________
boeing1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 14:29   #14
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
Here's how we've done it, for 17 years and 6,500 engine hours:

We have a single main engine and two battery banks. No VSR/ACR, and no generator. One bank is "starting" type (high Cranking Amps, but low Amp Hour capacity). The other "House" bank is "deep cycle" type (modest Cranking Amps, but high Amp Hour capacity).

Everything in the boat, except for bilge pumps and propane sniffer, runs off whichever bank the main battery switch (1-BOTH-2-OFF) is connected to.

We stay switched to the House bank 99+ percent of the time. When we want to start our diesel, we switch to the Start bank. After the engine is started and we've retrieved anchor with the windlass (another high current draw), we stay switched to Start for maybe 10-15 minutes, so that the start bank gets well recharged.

Then we switch (through BOTH, not through OFF) back to House. After an hour or two with the engine running, the House bank is well recharged. We don't do any other switching, until the next time we need to start up. This is not too difficult to remember, so we haven't felt the need for the more automatic VSR/ACR.

We've never had dead batteries. We've had to use BOTH to start only occasionally, when the Start bank was beginning to get old, or maybe not recharged well enough.
this is basically my set up as well, with the exception that I've installed an ACR which takes care of the charging for the 'starter/reserve' battery without me having to leave the battery switch to the starter.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2015, 17:09   #15
Registered User
 
Sunsetrider's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sharbot Lake Ontario
Boat: Albin 25
Posts: 138
Re: When would you switch to Battery 1?

In my opinion of you don't use an ACR with an on-off switch you are just guessing as to the charging of the batteries and taking an unnecessary risk. The variety of opinions here on which position to use and when is an indication of the guesswork going on.
__________________

__________________
Sunsetrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
float switch far away from pump... should I use the neg side for the float switch? felipe Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 13 02-02-2014 14:20
How would you wire a starter battery-house bank connection earthbm Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 21 27-08-2013 00:29
If you could pick anything, what would you choose? schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 276 22-02-2013 17:53
Wiring My Battery Charger to the Battery Switch ? Shoalcove Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 23-08-2010 17:24
BlueSea Dual Switch w/ ACR v. 1-2-B Switch Maddog Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 0 13-07-2009 15:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.