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Old 16-05-2006, 22:33   #16
Kai Nui
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I think Elusive should wander in here. That is the set up he has. It was quite the feat getting the genset in there. Still not sure how he gets his 6'6" carcus in there to pull start the thing
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Old 16-05-2006, 22:51   #17
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oh sure ... drag me in ... OYE ... yeah... actually *I* didn't shoe horn the thing into the engine compartment .. Scott did .. almost by himself .. picked it up and shoved it in .. Ijust kinda guided it (more like tried to keep from getting crushed). Anyway .. it IS a pull start (didn't come with an electric start (woe is me). What I do is open one of the access doors and put one foot on the rack (frame) after setting the compression release (one rev), I pull up hard - if lucky, it catches. It is hard on the back. It is a 3500 Watt diesel gen set -- weights about 105 pounds (not sterling) Air cooled. Cost about $800 delivered. It has a Yanmar engine. It is not that noisy in the engine compartment, but I'm still working on a good way to exhaust the fumes ... I've ducted the exhaust to the old lift muffler for the old water cooled gen set. But the fumes still get out and about.
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Old 16-05-2006, 23:04   #18
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Sean -
If you ever get to the Upper Chesapeake ... and run that 'thing' for two hours a day... I'll be sure to come over with my dog in my dinghy and PRACTICE MY BAGPIPES right alongside. Of course the dog HATES the bagpipes and tries to drown out the cacaphony with her own version of discordance. <g>

Convert the 'beast' to a wet muffler or expect 'retaliation', especially in a quiet anchorage.

;-)
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Old 16-05-2006, 23:23   #19
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That is an issue with aircooled non marine gensets. If you get them in a place where the noise isn't a problem, you have the issues of cooling, intake and exhaust to contend with. Wheels, how did you work out the dry exhaust without losing power?
FWIW, a generater running in most anchorages I have been in, in the middle of the day is little more than a distraction. It is the wind generaters running all night that bug me.
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Old 17-05-2006, 04:15   #20
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I am using the twin muffler system the unit came with. This unit was originaly a "wisper" type unit. The metal casing it came in was so damn heavy, I didn't have a show of lifting the thing. So I took it out of that casing and dropped it down the engine room. It sits on a rail system at the rear of the main engine, right over the top of the transimision.
The draw back is, it will be a major PITA to ever get at the shaft in a hurry. I am working on the assumption, I won't ever need to
It isn't to bad to remove though, loosen four nuts and I hook on the mainsheet traveller pulley system directly over head, and use that to lift the Genset clear. Won't be doing anything like that in a heavey sea though.
The exhaust fitted to the head, is a short length of SST, that couples to a flexi exhaust coupling, then on to the mufflers, then on to a elbow that then drops the exhaust down, coupled to another flexi coupling, coupled to a bronze flange with an elbow onto the bronze skin fitting and exits about 1" above the waterline. The entire exhaust is lagged, but a substantial amount of heat still comes of the exhaust.
I have had no issue so far with the mufflers causing a power loss, or the same due to back pressure when the boat is healed.
HOWEVER, I have wondered about changing the exhaust to water cooled, but so far, I see to many difficulties.
I will see if I can get a Photo of the thing when I am out at the boat this weekend.
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Old 17-05-2006, 05:11   #21
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Good replies everyone. Thanks. Moving the genset presents many MANY problems as there is no way to do so. There is litereally no other place on the boat it can fit. Probably following Kai Nui's, Rich and Knottybouys suggestions (and the suggestions of others) and somhow attaching an additional muffler to it might be the easiest and most effective route.

Also, running it in the middle of the day makes sense to me, for the reasons Kai Nui mentioned. Most boats will still be underway (especially weekenders) and people are busy doing lots of things. A genset in the background would be much less noticeable.

Regarding purchasing new gensets and solar... My boat is my house, business and everything I own and don't have a trust fund, stocks, a "portfolio" or any other rich guy toys. If you would like to donate the funds, I'm all set to purchase a new one. That's a "rich guy" solution. I can't even come close to doing that.

I thought I'd post this to try and come up with the ideal time to run the genset. I could just as easily take the approach of all other people who work on the water - and say screw everyone around me. The fisheman does it. The lobster guy does it. Megayachts do it. Every other marine business does it. Why should I care about weekenders? I live and work here. Weekenders are just visiting.

But that's not me. I'm a nice guy who cares about those around me. I like to be a nice neighbor. I like quiet as much as the next guy. I will look into the aftermarket mufflers, as that seems to be where most of the noise comes from. I'll also run during the middle of the day, as Kai Nui suggested.
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Old 17-05-2006, 05:29   #22
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First of all, I must say that I would be the normally peace loving guy who would go ballistic if you ran your genset for two hours a day during the times that you propose. I would suggest that you split the running times into perhaps two one-hour sessions (better for your batteries as well) so that your neighbors do not have to live with two hours of drone. I would also suggest 10:30 am to 11:30 am and 2:30 pm to 3:30 pm as the least intrusive, avoiding traditional meal and typical nap times.

In my book running something as loud as a lawn mower for two hours in an anchorage is mega rudeness. Sound reduction would seem like a minimum course of action. But beyond that I would say that not being able to afford alternative power generation (wind/solar) is an unacceptable excuse. Given the price of fuel, you should be able to pay for alternative power sources in well less than a season of operating the generator. Put it on your credit card and be a decent neighbor.

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Old 17-05-2006, 05:45   #23
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I appreaciate the advice as to best running times. Makes sense.

But... I have to ask...

Did you just tell me that it is not acceptable to go without buying solar/wind? Did I read that right? Solar/wind is about $8000. Did you really just say I am obliged to spend $8000 right now?

Yeah, those items can pay for themselves over the course of 5 years (not one year), but who is going to give me $8000 today to buy it? You? And what makes you assume I have a credit card with an $8000 limit? Another pompous "rich guy" solution.

I suppose I should be asking my neighbors and other people who work out here these questions, since the perspective of weekenders who are sitting in an office right now is not as relevant. Sorry I ever put this post up. It's really showing the true colors of some folks on here.

I think I might have to leave this board now... I had been losing interest in it for a while since I have been living away from land. It's full of many great folks - the mod team, and others - but the kind of posts I have been seeing lately leave a great deal to be desired. This used to be a board where people could have an honest discussion and talk about things in a theoretical nature without too much negativity. Things have changed.

Fair winds to everyone... I enjoyed my stay, but it's time to unplug.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff H
First of all, I must say that I would be the normally peace loving guy who would go ballistic if you ran your genset for two hours a day during the times that you propose. I would suggest that you split the running times into perhaps two one-hour sessions (better for your batteries as well) so that your neighbors do not have to live with two hours of drone. I would also suggest 10:30 am to 11:30 am and 2:30 pm to 3:30 pm as the least intrusive, avoiding traditional meal and typical nap times.

In my book running something as loud as a lawn mower for two hours in an anchorage is mega rudeness. Sound reduction would seem like a minimum course of action. But beyond that I would say that not being able to afford alternative power generation (wind/solar) is an unacceptable excuse. Given the price of fuel, you should be able to pay for alternative power sources in well less than a season of operating the generator. Put it on your credit card and be a decent neighbor.

Jeff
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Old 17-05-2006, 06:09   #24
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Chill out dude,

You can buy a pair of 6 amp solar panels on sale for well less than $1000. That should cut your genset run time by something over an hour a day and pay for itself 150-200 days. Or alternatively you can find used wind gens for around the same price.

I resent the "Another pompous "rich guy" solution" comment. I can't afford to buy a 44 foot boat, no less operate it. I can't afford to run a diesel genset 2 hours a day, day in and day out. This is about priorties. You chose to rebuild your aft cabin to give it sex appeal which is your business. But you chose to spend that money rather than be considerate of others. It is not unreasonable to for someone say, if you really care about being a good neighbor then spend a percentage of what your aft cabin rebuild cost to be a good neighbor.

And if you think that you have a right to be angry and stomp off simply because someone points out that it is rude to run generator that is as loud as a lawn mower for two hours a day in a quiet anchorage, and you should take actions to reduce the rudeness, then that makes the your choice of title of this thread accurate. Frankly, having read your posts for a while, I would have expected better of you.

Jeff
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Old 17-05-2006, 06:28   #25
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Sullivan, Consider for a minute the business aspect of running a generator from a clients point of view. If a client has paid several hundred dollars for a few days time on your yacht he may not want to spend any of it listening to a noisy generator.

I won’t belabor the point that gensets can be a nuisance in a crowded anchorage. What I would add is that the genset is not the culprit but it is the unwanted sound. Classical may seem better than Rock because there has been more time to weed out all the junk but if there are two boats in an anchorage one is not going to want to hear the other one.

Once in Georgetown a neighboring yachtie came by to ‘complement’ us on our singing after the previous evening’s jam session. While it was a compliment, the point was made. If someone can hear me at a distance greater than the scope of my anchor chain I’m too loud. All the best.
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Old 17-05-2006, 06:32   #26
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Jeff, I stand by the "pompous rich guy" comment. Why can't you afford to run and purchase a 44ft boat? Got a house? Not me. Got it at a dock or mooring? I don't. What kind of car do you drive? I have a 2001 Hyundai Accent with scratches and dents. It's the only care we share. Got an electric bill at your house? Not me, I run the genset instead of paying the utility company.

These are the reasons you don't have a 44ft boat. These are another example of priorities. I have the boat I have because other than the Hyundai, it's the ONLY thing I have. Don't make it sound like I have some fancy lifestyle when I have nothing but a huge loan.

I was planning to "run away" from the board for a while because of the nature of posts I have been seeing. This just helped me make the decision.
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Old 17-05-2006, 06:44   #27
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Wise words, Pura. Good real life example too.

Unfortunately for our customers, if they would like to have hot water, lights, running water, a television, air conditioning, and all of the other bells and whistles they require, the power has to come from somewhere. So... there is little choice but for them to hear a genset. (or spring for a dock with shore power)

It is definitely their option to have the genset not run, but the laws of physics will prevent them from using any electricity during that time period. Such is the nature of being independent from land.

So how did the neighboring yachtie compliment you that day? Did he use sarcasm, or do you think he really meant that the jam session was good? That's an interesting example.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pura Vida
Sullivan, Consider for a minute the business aspect of running a generator from a clients point of view. If a client has paid several hundred dollars for a few days time on your yacht he may not want to spend any of it listening to a noisy generator.

I won’t belabor the point that gensets can be a nuisance in a crowded anchorage. What I would add is that the genset is not the culprit but it is the unwanted sound. Classical may seem better than Rock because there has been more time to weed out all the junk but if there are two boats in an anchorage one is not going to want to hear the other one.

Once in Georgetown a neighboring yachtie came by to ‘complement’ us on our singing after the previous evening’s jam session. While it was a compliment, the point was made. If someone can hear me at a distance greater than the scope of my anchor chain I’m too loud. All the best.
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Old 17-05-2006, 07:29   #28
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He-he, running an air-cooled diesel genset in a quiet anchorage for 2 hours per day.....

I have been known to dinghy over and ask people to shut down their inboard gensets if they anchor close to me.
If they refuse, I simply move and find another place to put the hook down.

Not only is the noise a nuisance, but if the jerk-boat is anchored in front of me, I get the fumes down my hatches and it gets double miserable.

Solar is the way to go, and if I can fit two 75 watt panels on my 33 foot boat, then 4 panels should fit on your 44' ship.

Sell the air cooled genset on e-bay and buy panels for the money, it will cost far less than $8K. Probably around $400.00 for each panel, then some wire and a regulator and 1" SS tubing, etc. Perhaps $2.5K total.

Your neigbors and guests will appreciate the quiet surroundings and since you are running a business, the panels will be tax-decuctible.
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Old 17-05-2006, 07:36   #29
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Some combination of "all of the above" might work out. Despite the somewhat combative tone, JeffH has some decent points. Supplementing your generator power with some (relatively speaking) lower cost solor or wind might not eliminate the need to use it, but could reduce the use enough to make it less of a problem. I also like the mid-morning and mid-afternoon schedules more than the 4-6 dinner hour schedule. Adding some kind of additional or better quality muffler certainly isn't going to hurt.

On the other hand, here on land I hear lawn mowers running most all day on weekends everywhere from my own yard to next door to somewhere down the block. If the noise is comparable, I wouldn't find it that disturbing to hear for an hour or two every day.

Another simple alternative is to fire it up whenever there's already noise in the area. I'd rather hear a little more noise for a shorter time. Or to return to the mowing analogy, it would be better if all my neighbors mowed at the same time.

If there are only a handful of other boats nearby, you could also just ask around to find the least disturbing time. If my neighbor asked me when would be the least intrusive time to mow, I'd probably tell him anytime during daylight and be amazed that he was thoughtful enough to ask.
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Old 17-05-2006, 07:53   #30
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Sully, Dude, Chill

You started this thread by saying, and I quote you here" I figure if you all are very honest about what you would expect some jerk with a genset to do, then I could possible avoid being a jerk."

I took you at your word and was honest with you. Don't be angry with me for taking you at your word and being honest with you. You are a resourceful guy. If you want my honest opinion as you say you do, if you really care what people on other boats think, then make it a priority to figure out how to reduce the noise and run time on your genset within a reasonable period of time.

If you care enough about being a good neighbor to do something about your noisiness then watch the sale pages at West Marine, or Defender etc, because solar panels do come on sale for very cheap prices with a fair degree of regularity. Similar output wind generators routinely sell for under a grand, and older model wind generators show up for sale at even cheaper prices as well. So my suggestion if you really care about being a decent neighbor is to plan ahead, so that at some point you can take advantage of one of these discount opportunities. If you really are a callous jerk, then do whatever the hell you want, but then don't put up a post that sounds like you really give a s#$% about your neighbors.

For the record I drive a 1993 Nissan with a similar accoutrement of dings and dents, I live in a 1,000 square foot house, I have only paid for a slip or mooring for two of the twenty something years that I have lived and sailed in Annapolis, and my average electric bill each month is less than 40 dollars a month. In fairness I do have a large mortgage and my electrical bill will be going up due to deregulation.

But but back to the point, if being a good neighbor is something that you care about. it does not require all that much money to improve the situation. If you want to get histerical and insulted that someone pointed that out, that's your problem.

Jeff
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