What Are Best House Batteries for Cruising Catamaran?

[billknny]

Originally Posted by maxingout

I have a Privilege 39 catamaran on which I am doing a refit.

I want to purchase four house batteries and two engine starting batteries.

I got my last batteries in Australia more than ten years ago. We had two lead acid batteries for engine starting and four gel batteries for house power.

I am trying to figure out what kind of batteries to put on board in Florida, with my main concern being the four house batteries.

I am not seeing much information about gel batteries, and I am wondering if they are no longer popular.

After reading the different threads about batteries, I am confused about how to proceed.

My charging consists of about 50 aH per day from solar panels. Engine running time about an hour a day. Two wind generators producing at least 200 aH per day when sailing in the trade winds.

Are gel batteries a thing of the past?

With my particular charging pattern, what is the best type of battery/brand of battery to get on a cruising yacht. It's decision time, and I need batteries that will get me through the South Pacific.

I think it is really odd that people have offered you all kinds of advice on what to get without knowing the most important piece of information:

How much power do you USE in a day???

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

What learning curve? Pair them with the right charger and that's it. Pretty much every modern charger and alternator controller is designed to be able to handle LiFePo4 batteries. It's just a case of cross checking the specs with the battery datasheets. In that regard it's no different from FLA or AGM. Sure you can get in to minute details of battery tech and charging systems, but most will will buy a system, set it up once then forget about it.

Of course I say all that whilst I'm sat here in a Cat with 200kg of FLA batteries.

Not trying to be difficult but could you let me know what alternator controller is designed to handle LiFePO4 batteries. I mean fully designed not just adjustable voltage set points.

I'm aware of Nordkyn's design but not really sure if it's on the market at this time.

[Avionics_Joe]

Before you make a decision you should watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-kND4PaZm8

A very well done presentation IMHO.

Joe

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by kenbo

Not trying to be difficult but could you let me know what alternator controller is designed to handle LiFePO4 batteries. I mean fully designed not just adjustable voltage set points.

I'm aware of Nordkyn's design but not really sure if it's on the market at this time.

No, all that is needed is user-custom setpoints like MC-614.

All gear on the market I've seen touting a canned LFP profile, including from LFP makers, are set way too high at 14+V.

The other major improvements would be NO float, just stop output to the LFP bank, and also the ability to really reduce or eliminate Absorb time.

But all these need to be user-adjustable.

[john61ct]

Best solution IMO, Sterling DC-DC BB line gives a good charge from any old source.

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

What learning curve? Pair them with the right charger and that's it. Pretty much every modern charger and alternator controller is designed to be able to handle LiFePo4 batteries. It's just a case of cross checking the specs with the battery datasheets. In that regard it's no different from FLA or AGM. Sure you can get in to minute details of battery tech and charging systems, but most will will buy a system, set it up once then forget about it.

Of course I say all that whilst I'm sat here in a Cat with 200kg of FLA batteries.

Originally Posted by billknny

I think it is really odd that people have offered you all kinds of advice on what to get without knowing the most important piece of information:

How much power do you USE in a day???

Originally Posted by john61ct

No, all that is needed is user-custom setpoints like MC-614.

All gear on the market I've seen touting a canned LFP profile, including from LFP makers, are set way too high at 14+V.

The other major improvements would be NO float, just stop output to the LFP bank, and also the ability to really reduce or eliminate Absorb time.

But all these need to be user-adjustable.

John,

What you say above is not ideal and doesn't represent a fully designed alternator regulator for LiFePO4 batteries.

It either involves some type of alarm and human intervention to open the field circuit. Or the additional use of external relays to do the same.

My comment, I believe still stands. What off the shelf alternator regulator is fully designed to properly charge LFP without workarounds or operator intervention?

[mikedefieslife]

Yeah. Thats the key, getting charging voltages set right for the battery, but in that regard its nondifferent from agm or fla. Check the data sheets if you trust them, i know many dont for lithium, as even the manufactures recommend charging at over 14v and floating at 13.6 or similar. But even with other technologies, you want custom profiles to maximise life. Once setup there shouldn’t be anything else to do.

Most people dont care though. It’s like balancing fla. An extra year of life on a 7 year life span isn’t worth the hassle for many people.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the OP’s question.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by kenbo

John,

What you say above is not ideal and doesn't represent a fully designed alternator regulator for LiFePO4 batteries.

It either involves some type of alarm and human intervention to open the field circuit. Or the additional use of external relays to do the same.

My comment, I believe still stands. What off the shelf alternator regulator is fully designed to properly charge LFP without workarounds or operator intervention?

They aren’t work arounds or intervention it’s just how the controllers work. It’s no different for any other tech. You still need to set it up. After that it’s automatic.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Avionics_Joe

Before you make a decision you should watch this.

A very well done presentation IMHO. [emoji3]

Joe

Yes very cute couple of YouTube stars, but they admit themselves to not be au fait with the tech details.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by kenbo

John,

What you say above is not ideal and doesn't represent a fully designed alternator regulator for LiFePO4 batteries.

It either involves some type of alarm and human intervention to open the field circuit. Or the additional use of external relays to do the same.

My comment, I believe still stands. What off the shelf alternator regulator is fully designed to properly charge LFP without workarounds or operator intervention?

Let's please continue the LFP-specifics in that current thread?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/....php?p=2524888

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

What learning curve? Pair them with the right charger and that's it. Pretty much every modern charger and alternator controller is designed to be able to handle LiFePo4 batteries. It's just a case of cross checking the specs with the battery datasheets. In that regard it's no different from FLA or AGM. Sure you can get in to minute details of battery tech and charging systems, but most will will buy a system, set it up once then forget about it.

Of course I say all that whilst I'm sat here in a Cat with 200kg of FLA batteries.

Maybe someone has come out with a ready to go, plug and play LiFePO installation. If so I'll bet it is even more expensive.

From my reading to properly set up a LiFePO system you have to first balance each individual cell. Then you have to be careful to not overcharge the batteries and maybe have to rebalance the cells if this or that. And if you screw if it up you just killed a few grand worth of batteries.

I already have too many things to deal with in my life without learning the care and feeding of a very, very expensive battery system. I'll just stick with the plain old FLA, deep cycles.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Maybe someone has come out with a ready to go, plug and play LiFePO installation. If so I'll bet it is even more expensive.

Answered in the other thread, let's please keep this one on OP's use case.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Answered in the other thread, let's please keep this one on OP's use case.

Well the OP did indeed ask what kind of batteries would be best for his boat and cruising plans without limiting the question to any specific type other than mentioning past use of gels.

Since LiFePO batteries are used in cruising boats, discussing them is exactly on point.

So let's please keep this one open to all options relevant to the OP's question.

[john61ct]

Because that topic with all its derailing details and disagreements is getting good coverage over there

IMO should all get rehashed here only if the OP actually expresses an interest in LFP.

I'm as big a LFP fanboy as anyone, but recognize it's penetrated less than .001% of the cruising market, and for largely rational reasons.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Because that topic with all its derailing details and disagreements is getting good coverage over there

IMO should all get rehashed here only if the OP actually expresses an interest in LFP.

I'm as big a LFP fanboy as anyone, but recognize it's penetrated less than .001% of the cruising market, and for largely rational reasons.

Yes I am quite aware of the other threads on LiFePO batteries.

However, the OP may not be aware of the LiFePO option so mentioning some of the high points is totally pertinent to his question. Of course if interest develops then it would be redundant to rehash all the many technical details at which time the OP can then link to the other thread.