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Old 11-12-2013, 16:12   #16
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Re: Weak Heart?

Thanks for the replies, good information. Sorry I have not been on internet last few days.

We are currently in a marina for a few days. Connected to shore power and seeing 118 VAC in the boat, the charging issues have gone away. Actually saw just over 100 amp battering charging DC current for awhile. Batteries charged up to full charge within 24 hours.

The generator is an Entec West EW-4200-D rated at 4.2 kW, 120 VAC +/- 5%, 35 amp, 60 Hz.

I had read that generator should be 4 kW for the Freedom 20 (not 6 kW). The Entec has some info regarding Freedom 25 (vs 20) compatibility where refers to peak wave issue mentioned

I have heard it takes a 6Kw to 8Kw generator to operate a Heart Interface, Freedom 25 combination inverter/charger. Your thoughts?

We have tested our EW-4200 with a "25" and have come to the following conclusions.
When the Heart "25" is operating in the batter charger mode, the D.C. charging voltage is reduced if the A.C. peak voltage is not high enough. This will reduce it's charging ability, resulting in a longer time to re-charge a bank of batteries.
Many small generators have considerable wave form distortion and have a distorted peak voltage that reduces the "25" ability to deliver it's full battery charging capacity.
Many small generators do not have a voltage regulating ability that can maintain the high peak voltage the "25" requires.
Our EW-4200 however, uses a skewed rotor design, that in conjunction with our voltage regulating systems meets the "25's" needs. All of our tests show that the "25's" charging current achieves between 90% and 100% of it's maximum rated value when operating from our EW-4200. For additional discussion, call us.
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Old 11-12-2013, 16:27   #17
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Re: Weak Heart?

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Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
Thanks for the replies, good information. Sorry I have not been on internet last few days.

We are currently in a marina for a few days. Connected to shore power and seeing 118 VAC in the boat, the charging issues have gone away. Actually saw just over 100 amp battering charging DC current for awhile. Batteries charged up to full charge within 24 hours.

The generator is an Entec West EW-4200-D rated at 4.2 kW, 120 VAC +/- 5%, 35 amp, 60 Hz.

I had read that generator should be 4 kW for the Freedom 20 (not 6 kW). The Entec has some info regarding Freedom 25 (vs 20) compatibility where refers to peak wave issue mentioned

I have heard it takes a 6Kw to 8Kw generator to operate a Heart Interface, Freedom 25 combination inverter/charger. Your thoughts?

We have tested our EW-4200 with a "25" and have come to the following conclusions.
When the Heart "25" is operating in the batter charger mode, the D.C. charging voltage is reduced if the A.C. peak voltage is not high enough. This will reduce it's charging ability, resulting in a longer time to re-charge a bank of batteries.
Many small generators have considerable wave form distortion and have a distorted peak voltage that reduces the "25" ability to deliver it's full battery charging capacity.
Many small generators do not have a voltage regulating ability that can maintain the high peak voltage the "25" requires.
Our EW-4200 however, uses a skewed rotor design, that in conjunction with our voltage regulating systems meets the "25's" needs. All of our tests show that the "25's" charging current achieves between 90% and 100% of it's maximum rated value when operating from our EW-4200. For additional discussion, call us.
Yep just as I said. It clear by the numbers you posted that the Generator is your source of the problem. Now it could be that your gen regulator, or governor is not working properly.

So a good RMS meter and Scope, and a laser tac, you can trouble shoot. You might also look for a local electrician, and have them help you build a PF correction, if it turns out it's not the regulator/governor.

Running these loads long term are going to stress the gen windings.

Lloyd
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Old 12-12-2013, 21:20   #18
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Re: Weak Heart?

Quote:
I had read that generator should be 4 kW for the Freedom 20 (not 6 kW).
The info I posted was a direct quote from the 1997 Xantrex Tech Note. A Freedom 20 requires a 6.5kW genset, not a 4kW,with no other AC loads running.
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:24   #19
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Re: Weak Heart?

it'll draw 15 amps charging... that is under 2k.

shore power is only 3.5k.

6.5kw gen requirement is ridiculous
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Old 13-12-2013, 08:20   #20
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Re: Weak Heart?

1. Xantrex, the manufacturer of the inverter/charger specifies 6.5kW as the minimum.
2. Flying Cloud explains peak voltage and clipping of the sine wave.
3. The Freedom charge function works correctly when connected to shore power and is receiving a non-clipped sine wave.
4. smac999 deems the Xantrex requirement as "...ridiculous."

I guess we can't let facts get in the way of opinion.
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Old 13-12-2013, 10:07   #21
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Re: Weak Heart?

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Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
1. Xantrex, the manufacturer of the inverter/charger specifies 6.5kW as the minimum.
2. Flying Cloud explains peak voltage and clipping of the sine wave.
3. The Freedom charge function works correctly when connected to shore power and is receiving a non-clipped sine wave.
4. smac999 deems the Xantrex requirement as "...ridiculous."

I guess we can't let facts get in the way of opinion.
Charlie,

You forgot the the poor Power Factor, about 7. The generator has to provide real power and apparent power.

That is easily done from the grid with poor PF, not so much from a small generator.

Lloyd
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Old 13-12-2013, 10:59   #22
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Re: Weak Heart?

FC1937-
Right-o; however the dismissal of the clipped sine wave led me to believe that additional technical points would also be dismissed!
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Old 13-12-2013, 11:07   #23
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Re: Weak Heart?

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FC1937-
Right-o; however the dismissal of the clipped sine wave led me to believe that additional technical points would also be dismissed!
I wholly agree.

But then again you and I are held to a higher standard. As we should be.

Lloyd
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Old 28-12-2013, 13:33   #24
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Re: Weak Heart?

An update on this issue:

We finally spent some time in a marina. Once plugged into a solid 120 VAC power source the charger worked fine and charged with up to about 100 amps (for a short time at least, then around 90 amp for about 1.5 hours) getting battery charged up. After 24 hours (with amps dropped to lower rates) battery was fully charged.

Seems Freedom Heart unit was working fine, and problem was low AC voltage from my generator causing the reduced charger output.

Edit: I guess I already posted this info before. Oops
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