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Old 22-01-2017, 06:16   #31
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Distilled water costs no more than $1 per gallon most everywhere. Just use it, use the right stuff, store a few gallons on the boat. It's small money compared to the damage to your battery bank which can be caused by using a substitute.
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Old 22-01-2017, 16:41   #32
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by ObiWanSand View Post
Hi all!

I was wandering if there is any merit to the idea of using watermaker water, to refill batteries? After all the water is quite sterile having gone through 5 micron filters?

Has anyone tried and are willing to share experiences ?

PS!
Sorry if this has already been discussed, would be happy if someone could post the relevant links.
All batteries should be refilled with distilled water and or now with reverse osmosis water. It has to be water with no chemicals and neutral non conductive.
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Old 22-01-2017, 16:56   #33
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Kennomac: I assume the issue is storage space. It shouldn't be money.

Seabreeze: The vendors don't even say that.

Jestarebl: If you know the ASTM standard number, post it. While there are ASTM water standards, I could not find one tied to this use. I do not believe it exists.

Battery vendors and vendor trade groups publish standards. They do NOT require distilled water, but the limits are very strict in certain areas.
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Old 22-01-2017, 17:18   #34
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Kennomac: I assume the issue is storage space. It shouldn't be money.

Seabreeze: The vendors don't even say that.

Jestarebl: If you know the ASTM standard number, post it. While there are ASTM water standards, I could not find one tied to this use. I do not believe it exists.

Battery vendors and vendor trade groups publish standards. They do NOT require distilled water, but the limits are very strict in certain areas.
How much space does a couple of gallons of distilled water take up? Even on our O'Day 20, we could store five gallons if we wanted to without making a difference. Priorities?
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Old 22-01-2017, 17:31   #35
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
How much space does a couple of gallons of distilled water take up? Even on our O'Day 20, we could store five gallons if we wanted to without making a difference. Priorities?
Kenomac... I found this on the Trojan Batteries web site...
W h i t e Pa p e r
Recommended Maximum Allowable Impurities in Water for Battery Use
Impurity Parts Per Million Effects of Impurity
Color Clear and “White” -
Suspended Matter Trace -
Total Solids 100.0 -
Organic and Volatile Matter 50.0 Corrosion of positive plate
Ammonia 8.0 Slight self -discharge of both plates
Antimony 5.0 Self-discharge by local action, reduces life, lowers on-charge voltage
Arsenic 0.5 Self-discharge, can form poisonous gas at negative
Calcium 40.0 Increase positive shedding
Chloride 5.0 Loss of capacity in both plates, greater loss in positive
Copper 5.0 Increased self-discharge, lowers on-charge voltage
Iron 3.0 Increased self-discharge at both plates, lowers on charge voltage
Magnesium 40.0 Reduces life
Nickel None Allowed Intense lowering of on-charge voltage
Nitrates 10.0 Increased sulfation at negative
Nitrites 5.0 Corrosion at both plates, loss of capacity, reduced life
Platinum None Allowed Violent self-discharge, lowers on-charge voltage
Selenium 2.0 Positive shedding
Zinc 4.0 Slight self-discharge at negative
Table 1
Introduction
In lead acid batteries, water purity can have a major effect on product
performance. Water usage needs to be viewed as a priority for maximum
performance. The popular misconception is that any type of water can be
used. Natural waters may vary considerably in the amount of impurities
they contain. Some factors include the source of the water and the time of
year. Throughout the country there are various water sources with different
amounts of impurities. Contaminates in the water source play a large part
in the performance and life of a battery.
Types of water
The most common type of water used in batteries is distilled water. Other
types are deionized water and water from reverse osmosis. Ordinary tap
water should not be used because it may contain an excessive amount
of impurities that will degrade battery performance. (See Table 1 for
acceptable maximum allowable impurities in water for battery use).
Distilled water is produced by distillation, a process in which water is
boiled, the steam is collected and then condensed back into water. This
process creates a finished product free of minerals, having left all the
impurities in the original water sample.
Deionized water is the purest form of water, but it is also the most
expensive. The process of deionization removes all ionizable particles
(organic and inorganic) from water through ion exchange. Positively and
negatively charged ions are removed from the water and replaced with
H+ and OH- ions. When these two ions are combined, they form H2O or
purified water.
Reverse osmosis is a method of removing solids from water by forcing
it through a membrane. The membrane rejects all solids while allowing
purified water to pass through. The choice of membrane determines the
amount of impurities that the water may contain.
Maximum allowable amounts
When discussing water purity, one must consider the amount of dissolved
solid contaminates in the solution. The issue then is the maximum
allowable amount of impurities that water may contain and still be suitable
for battery use. The parts-per-million count has been developed to address
this issue. Battery literature suggests a parts-per-million count not in excess
of 100. Table 1 shows a list of maximum allowable impurities in solution.
Effects on the battery
The mineral content may be minimal in some water. The gassing effects
from charging a storage battery, coupled with evaporation, may leave
behind mineral contaminates in the electrolyte solution. As a result, the
minerals will have a cumulative effect inside the battery. Table 1 shows the
effects of the different impurities.
Depending on the type of impurity, the physical characteristics as well as
the performance of the battery may be affected. The impurities may hinder
both the positive and negative plates. Impurities may also cause a variety
of reactions in the battery, hence different behavioral characteristics. Some
impurities have an effect on the metallic components only, and some
affect the separators. Either scenario will lead to a drop in performance.
Effects of Impurities on Lead-Acid Batteries
Page 1
An increase in self-discharge at either plate is the most common effect.
This will deplete the battery’s capacity at an increased rate. Impurities
that increase self-discharge characteristics typically have an effect on
cycle life and charge voltage. The cycle life is reduced and the on-charge
voltage is lowered. Ultimately, the overall rated performance of the
battery will be affected.
Recommendations
In conclusion, for the best overall performance from the battery, distilled
water is the most beneficial type of water to use. It is also important to have
the water filled to the proper levels. For standard batteries, electrolyte levels
should be 1/8” below the bottom of the vent well about 1/2” to 3/4” above
the top of the plates. For Plus Series
batteries, add water to the maximum

water level indicator. The electrolyte should not be allowed to drop below
the top of the plates. Only, distilled, deionized or approved water should
be added to achieve the recommended levels mentioned above. ACID
SHOULD NEVER BE ADDED TO THE BATTERY.
Proper maintenance of a lead-acid battery will help to assure peak
performance and full use of the battery’s designed life.
© 2012 Trojan Battery Company. All rights reserved. Trojan Battery Company is not liable for damages that may result from any information provided in or omitted from this
publication, under any circumstances. Trojan Battery Company reserves the right to make adjustments to this publication at any time, without notices or obligation.
For a Trojan Master Distributor near you,
call 800.423.6569 or + 1.562.236.3000 or visit Trojan Battery Company
Trojan batteries are available worldwide through Trojan’s Master Distributor Network.
We offer outstanding technical support, provided by full-time application engineers.
Page 2
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Old 22-01-2017, 17:59   #36
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Seabreez,

Well...

The paragraph which should stand out above the rest should be....

"Recommendations

In conclusion, for the best overall performance from the battery, distilled water is the most beneficial type of water to use. It is also important to have the water filled to the proper levels. For standard batteries, electrolyte levels should be 1/8” below the bottom of the vent well about 1/2” to 3/4” above
the top of the plates. For Plus Series ™ batteries, add water to the maximum"


.... if you care about your batteries.

I assume that is the point you're trying to make.
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Old 22-01-2017, 18:16   #37
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Seabreez,

Well...

The paragraph which should stand out above the rest should be....

"Recommendations

In conclusion, for the best overall performance from the battery, distilled water is the most beneficial type of water to use. It is also important to have the water filled to the proper levels. For standard batteries, electrolyte levels should be 1/8” below the bottom of the vent well about 1/2” to 3/4” above
the top of the plates. For Plus Series ™ batteries, add water to the maximum"


.... if you care about your batteries.

I assume that is the point you're trying to make.
Not at all, I was responding that you could not find any recommendations. Also, if I may add, is the difference between distilled water and Reverse Osmosis (RO) is that both are close to "O" acidic although Distilled is more acidic than RO. I believe RO water is active and distilled is dead water. Regards.
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Old 22-01-2017, 18:19   #38
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

To further beat a dead horse, distilled water can be drunk too of course, so it could be part of your emergency supply, that way it's not wasting space
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Old 22-01-2017, 18:45   #39
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by seabreez View Post
Not at all, I was responding that you could not find any recommendations. Also, if I may add, is the difference between distilled water and Reverse Osmosis (RO) is that both are close to "O" acidic although Distilled is more acidic than RO. I believe RO water is active and distilled is dead water. Regards.
I confess I do not understand what point(s) you are trying to make, but the fact that wster of high purity (distilled or RO) absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and its low buffering power leads to significant impact on pH is irrelevant in a battery.
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Old 22-01-2017, 19:01   #40
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
I confess I do not understand what point(s) you are trying to make, but the fact that wster of high purity (distilled or RO) absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and its low buffering power leads to significant impact on pH is irrelevant in a battery.
It's ok... I was responding to a previous posting. Not trying to make a point at all about pH... Regards,
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Old 23-01-2017, 00:16   #41
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Distilled water costs no more than $1 per gallon most everywhere. Just use it, use the right stuff, store a few gallons on the boat. It's small money compared to the damage to your battery bank which can be caused by using a substitute.
"Most everywhere" must not include Australia or much of the South Pacific!
DI water here runs three to five times your quote.

I buy it anyway, but grumble about the cost at times.

You need to get out more, KEn.

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Old 23-01-2017, 03:25   #42
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

If you can run it through twice and remove the salt below 100 ppm, it would be fine in a pinch. I would not do it all the time as the effects are cumulative.
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Old 23-01-2017, 03:45   #43
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by boatbod View Post
Ok here goes...

Air conditioner "condensate" water is so disgustingly nasty I wouldn't feed it to my enemies, never mind putting it in my batteries.

Why? Perhaps because it condenses all over the evaporator coils which are open to air flow from the boat, which includes dirt, dust and bacteria. Once the water had dripped down from the coil it then collects in a pan, which on most boats is rusty as all hell and again quite possibly contaminated with mold and all manner of debris.

Your air conditioner might be spotless and capable of making sterile water. None of the ones I've seen or worked on come anywhere close.
I have just killed one of the wifes house plants by pouring water from the tumble dryer on it. The dryer is only a couple of months old and I thought it would be a good use for the water. Won't be doing that again and certainly won't be using it near my batteries, not that there is any excuse as distilled water is readily available.

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Old 23-01-2017, 05:26   #44
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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Originally Posted by seabreez View Post
Not at all, I was responding that you could not find any recommendations. Also, if I may add, is the difference between distilled water and Reverse Osmosis (RO) is that both are close to "O" acidic although Distilled is more acidic than RO. I believe RO water is active and distilled is dead water. Regards.
Distilled water is basically neutral and RO water is very aggressive due to the fact that the permeate is ionically imbalanced because it rejects certain ions more than others based on the valance of the different impurities which is why in drinking water applications, it is usually ran through calcium carbonate beds before being stored to reduce the effects of this aggressive nature. Distilled water can go right into storage for usage because it's perfectly neutral. I even have a nylon stocking filled with calcium carbonate chips hanging in my water tanks on my boat because of its (RO) agressive nature
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Old 23-01-2017, 05:32   #45
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Re: Watermaker water to refill batteries

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I even have a nylon stocking filled with calcium carbonate chips hanging in my water tanks on my boat because of its (RO) agressive nature
That's a great tip, thanks. BTW, Jsta_Rebel does this for a living in case anyone doubted anything he says. It's great to have this kind of expertise available to us.
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