Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-07-2017, 12:37   #1
UYA
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Home Harbour: Berlin, currently in Portugal
Boat: Adla 30 (custom made steel sloop), 9.40m hull length
Posts: 9
Water generator paradoxum?

I was wondering why water generators are so expensive. The cheapest ones start at around 2000 Euros / US Dollars and go up to way over 5k for a high end one. Given their limited use (only generate electricity when under way) this is way to expensive for my liking. However I would like an extra power source for passages given the electronic equipment I run (active AIS, VHF radio, navigation computer, radar, etc.).
Looking at electrical boat motors however they start at around 100 EUR / USD and are not much different to a water generator in my understanding (I know that you need a different prop and electronics but the costs should be the same).
So my questions are:
  • is it just scaling effects (not so many units sold) or is there a significant difference in manufacturing an electrical outboard engine or a water generator? What am I missing?
  • What would be your maximum price you are willing to pay for a water generator? For me it would be ~500 EUR/USD
Looking forward for your answers!
Happy sailing (with always full batteries ;-)
__________________

__________________
UYA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2017, 14:55   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,640
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

I think it boils down to the market size and production numbers at the end of the day. For the money...Solar is hard to beat.
__________________

__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-07-2017, 21:16   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 660
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

Market size. How many people spend more time sailing above 5 knots than sitting in a marina or at anchor?
__________________
Keth

Boat Vinyl Lettering and Graphics
Bleemus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 03:31   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,788
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

Where are you getting this $100 electric outboard? At that price, we may need to reconsider electric propulsion.

As others have said, for the typical cruiser, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. Coastal day runs, you can just eat up some battery storage and recharge at the next marina/anchorage.

Long offshore runs don't typically make up a significant percentage of days per year.

Much more effective to increase your solar array (or even wind generator) as solar will put out power pretty much 365 days per year, anchored, marina or under way. Unless your boat is restricted on places to install them, they make far more sense and a reasonable size array can handle the loads.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 06:09   #5
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,926
Images: 6
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

Like the price of EVERYTHING, it is very simply, what the market will bear. They charge that much because they CAN. Nothing more complicated than that.

You can build your own for less, but then you have to source all the parts, figure out how to make it work at the speed you cruise, put it all together... And, of course, you don't get any warranty that way.

You pays your money and takes your choice.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 07:04   #6
UYA
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: Home Harbour: Berlin, currently in Portugal
Boat: Adla 30 (custom made steel sloop), 9.40m hull length
Posts: 9
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

Hi All,

thank you for your replies. What I take away is that we haven't found a technical / physical reason for the price difference, just market reasons.

@SV THIRD DAY fully agree, solar is hard to beat in terms of costs vs. output. That's why I tried to cover as much as possible of my available space with solar panels ;-) But I was still curious if there is a technical reason for the price difference...

@valhalla360 I came up with the 100$ by doing a search on Amazon and found this one: https://www.amazon.de/Rhino-Motor-Co...ds=ZEBCO+RHINO (I have nothing to do with them, nor do I know if they are any good)
__________________
UYA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2017, 15:37   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,292
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

FWIW, as i've reported here several times I made a home brew trolling gen some years ago on our previous boat. Old surplus tape drive motor, 6 hp Johnson o/b prop, 12 mm double braid line, direct connection to batteries via a blocking diode. Put out 10 amps at 6 knots, 4 at 5 knots, bugger all below that. At much over 6 the output was higher but it would jump out of the water and make knots in the tow line.

This was in the days before cheap solar, but even with such, they don't work at night, so one needs plenty of battery capacity to run everything all night long. Further, when sailing panel shading is a big problem on some courses, low sun angles and short days reduces available energy even more, but the hydro gen keeps on putting out.

I really miss mine!

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania...our home away from home! In the area for a few months.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2017, 10:07   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 13
Re: Water generator paradoxum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
FWIW, as i've reported here several times I made a home brew trolling gen some years ago on our previous boat. Old surplus tape drive motor, 6 hp Johnson o/b prop, 12 mm double braid line, direct connection to batteries via a blocking diode. Put out 10 amps at 6 knots, 4 at 5 knots, bugger all below that. At much over 6 the output was higher but it would jump out of the water and make knots in the tow line.

This was in the days before cheap solar, but even with such, they don't work at night, so one needs plenty of battery capacity to run everything all night long. Further, when sailing panel shading is a big problem on some courses, low sun angles and short days reduces available energy even more, but the hydro gen keeps on putting out.

I really miss mine!

Jim
Good morning everyone...Very new here....wife daughter and I are soon to be living on a boat...once we get a house in AZ sold that is...

Interesting that the numbers you say you found with your homemade "concept" seem to be backed up by a similar but different application.

AQUAIR-UW Under Water Hydroelectric Generator


Steve
__________________

__________________
getyourbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Portable Inverter Generator or Reg. Generator? Hatch Liveaboard's Forum 54 16-06-2017 00:05
Generator vs Inverter Generator (Genset) Jon4399 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 30 11-01-2011 10:13
Portable Generator vs Solar Panels or Wind Generator Sweet As Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 120 16-09-2010 19:27
Any way to convert a DC Generator to an AC Generator? Latitude9.5 Engines and Propulsion Systems 13 06-04-2007 12:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.