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Old 14-08-2016, 12:26   #31
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

Update: I finally had time to get back to the boat. After several more hours of trouble shooting and getting the "wiring error" again, and other oddities, I finally realized I had a bad ethernet cable. I replaced that and viola', no more wiring error messages and I had good comm with the control panel.
However, I still had trouble running the Air conditioner. The big problem is that the Multiplus would - according to what I saw on the control panel - kick the AC-in offline when the demand was highest. It was as if the current limit you set is the point at which it cuts this out instead of adding the boost to it. It would read zero for more than 10 seconds, while the AC ran off the batteries (drawing 120 amps), but then the compressor would try to kick in again at the 10 second point with still no AC-in, at which point the inverter would overload and shut off.
I did set the "Dynamic Current Limiter" to on with the DIP switches and it did not seem to make a difference. I got the same result. I did run the Honda with the auto idle to "off" - there's no way it can ramp up in time for a compressor kick-in with it on.
Interestingly, I pulled the other Honda generator out and hooked the two of them in parallel (4000 watts total) and set the current limiter to 40 amps and got mixed results (before installing the inverter, the two generators ran the air conditioner just fine). Sometimes I got the same result (i.e. ac-in kicked off and then inverter overloaded) and sometimes it worked (it may have been when I set the current limiter to 50 amps, but I can't remember).
I re-wired it so that the air conditioner was connected to the Multi-plus' AC-2 (the original topic of this thread) and results were even worse. With this, when the compressor kicked in, the inverter would shut off the AC-in for about a minute or two and of course the air-conditioner got no inverter power from AC-2 because it had shut off the AC-in! So I re-wired it back to the AC-1 mains.
I was really frustrated so I went and sailed around for a few hours and then came back and tried just one generator again.
The batteries were fully charged at this point ("float" mode when charged with the inverter) and I set the current limiter to 25 amps. It managed to work the one time I tried it. Previously I had only waited through "bulk" and well into "absorption" charge mode.
This time, the control panel showed (momentarily) 646 amps coming from the generator (obviously impossible) before it kick off the shore power (generator in). But because the batteries were more fully charged, the inverter was able to power through the wait until the inverter kicked back in the shore power at about 15 seconds.
It would appear that having an absolutely fully charged battery bank (of 5 large batteries) is the only way it will work with my air conditioner. But that doesn't explain why it would kick out the AC-in when under high demand, just when it needs both the shore power and the inverter boost.
I really want to like this inverter but it seems to me that the current limiter is not functioning properly.
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Old 14-08-2016, 13:48   #32
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

I think you're drawing too much current and the Honda is disconnecting its output. The rated current for a Honda 2000 is 13.3A. I read where you're setting the limit at 25A and 40A. That isn't going to work. The Honda will disconnect and reset exactly like you describe.

If you changed the cable and got the panel working, why are you still messing with DIP switches? Set the input limit at 13A.
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Old 14-08-2016, 14:25   #33
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

I've personally tested the Honda with an ammeter and it can easily handle 15 amps steady and 20 amps surge. Also, if it has too much of a load, it shuts its current supply off, as you say, but does not "reset" until you shut the generator off and restart it. This is not happening, or at least not now that I am setting the input current limit. And in my experience so far, setting 25 amps on the control panel does not necessarily equate to an actual limit of 25 amps - that I think is part of the problem.
I'm not "messing" with the DIP switches. You can not change the "Dynamic Current Limiter" with the control panel, only the DIP switches or a computer interface. Don't get the "Dynamic Current Limiter" and the "AC input current limit" confused.
Also, I know most people assume others are dumb until proven otherwise, so just for some background, I am a certified aircraft mechanic with experience ranging from installing aircraft radios to overhauling jet engines so it's not like I'm dumb or inexperienced with these sorts of things.
I guess what I'm looking for is if anyone else with a similar setup is experiencing the same thing as something to compare to.
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Old 14-08-2016, 23:03   #34
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

you really need an AC current gauge. that would help you know what's going on. if you have one on your shore input, you'd know the amps the honda is putting out, before, durring, and after trying to start the AC.

I would also watch the voltage and freq at the victron input maybe the gen voltage or freq is dropping out of the victron specs, which would cause it to drop shore power input and invert only. (and inverter only will not run AC) and then goes back to normal specs when the load is dropped. that could be your 1 min reset, since you claim it's not a current overload issue since you dont' have to shut it off.

you can probably adjust the range of the input voltage and freq.

I would set your amp limit at 13 or 15

this should be easily testable by putting a large AC load on the boat. (say 10A) with low batteries. if you set to 13a. with low batteries the charger will be putting out ~70a and drawing 13a AC, turn on 10a ac load (mircowave). your charger will cut way back (since it only has 3a AC left over to run the charger) and your AC load will remain at 13a. but once again you should have AC current gauge on main panel to watch.

if you set it to 20 or 25a. doing this would blow your gen breaker.
actully just having the charger on probably would as it probably draws ~20a at full charging power.

and / or with low batteries change shore limit to 5a, 10a, 15a, you'll see the DC charge amps change at each setting.
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Old 15-08-2016, 15:23   #35
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

I will definitely do some more testing next weekend. Need to build an extension cord that allows me to measure the amps from the gen.
The lowest the current limiter can be set to is 11 amps.
I took some video of the control panel during my last tests, as soon as I figure out a way to post it I will, and add some more from this weekend.
I've done a lot of what you said, and the charging current does drop. It's the compressor kick that throws the AC-in offline. But with 20 or 25 amps set as the limit, it does NOT overload the generator. But I'll run the test without the compressor and just gradually increase the load to see what happens.
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:14   #36
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

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I will definitely do some more testing next weekend. Need to build an extension cord that allows me to measure the amps from the gen.
The lowest the current limiter can be set to is 11 amps.
I took some video of the control panel during my last tests, as soon as I figure out a way to post it I will, and add some more from this weekend.
I've done a lot of what you said, and the charging current does drop. It's the compressor kick that throws the AC-in offline. But with 20 or 25 amps set as the limit, it does NOT overload the generator. But I'll run the test without the compressor and just gradually increase the load to see what happens.
Buried deep in the Victron manual, is a note to the effect that power boost won't work on the lowest current limit settings. Could that be your problem?

I had a Honda 1000 for a while, and power boost wouldn't work on any current limit setting, which the generator could handle. Maybe doesn't apply to you since you have a 2000, but worth checking.
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Old 18-08-2016, 14:36   #37
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

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Buried deep in the Victron manual, is a note to the effect that power boost won't work on the lowest current limit settings.
Could you tell me where? I couldn't find it.
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Old 18-08-2016, 15:52   #38
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

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Buried deep in the Victron manual, is a note to the effect that power boost won't work on the lowest current limit settings. Could that be your problem?

I had a Honda 1000 for a while, and power boost wouldn't work on any current limit setting, which the generator could handle. Maybe doesn't apply to you since you have a 2000, but worth checking.
I had a Honda 1000 also and it worked great with my old Trace inverters. The Victron MultiPlus manual says that the lowest setting for their input current limit is 5.3A. When I got my new Multis installed I learned that the manual is wrong. The lowest setting is 9A, which is too high for a Honda 1000. I've confirmed this with support, but they haven't changed the manual. I have a Honda 2000 now.
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Old 19-08-2016, 05:35   #39
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

My manual (for the 12V 3000 watt) says 11 amps is the minimum current limit.
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Old 19-08-2016, 05:47   #40
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

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My manual (for the 12V 3000 watt) says 11 amps is the minimum current limit.
Interesting. Mine are 24V which I didn't think would be relevant. It is odd that the 120V input current would be halved in my manual. What is your actual limit?
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Old 19-08-2016, 10:11   #41
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

What do you mean, "actual limit?"
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Old 19-08-2016, 11:38   #42
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

I did a test this morning with loads other than the air conditioner, at various current limits. If you have a multiplus, please watch and tell me what you think.

https://youtu.be/hUjmouNiESo
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Old 19-08-2016, 13:19   #43
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

Great video.

1) I would not set the input limit above 13.3A since that is what the generator is rated for. It seems all your trouble is when the limit is set above this.

2) The Multi will disconnect from the source if it strays outside of the configured voltage or frequency ranges. Hitting the generator with a heavy or sudden load is probably affecting the voltage even if the load is within the capacity and the generator output doesn't trip.

3) I wonder how Victron determined the rate that the Dynamic Current Limiter allows the current demand on the generator to rise. I wonder if the allowed current could be related to the AC Input Current Limit you have set. Higher AC Input Current Limit = faster load applied to the generator = generator voltage dip = disconnected AC?
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Old 19-08-2016, 23:50   #44
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Re: Victron Multiplus AC-out-2

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I did a test this morning with loads other than the air conditioner, at various current limits. If you have a multiplus, please watch and tell me what you think.

https://youtu.be/hUjmouNiESo

that vacum probably draws 30a at start up. my big shop vac won't start up off a 2000w (3000+ surge) inverter. because it can't handle the surge.

that is what you see at the first 2 settings. the gen is putting out 11a and 15 amp and is happy, and the inverter is handeling the surge.

when you set it to 20. the honda is trying to supply 20a and the inverter is taking the rest. the honda is not happy supplying 20a and as I mentioned above the voltage or freq might be dropping out of the victron range. so the victron will shut off the input untill it goes back to normal (after a testing delay).

do the test again at 20a. but leave it running for 2 mins. you only left it for 5 secs. once the surge is over and the vacuum is left on only drawing 6a. the honda output will go back to normal. the victron will have a ~30sec test delay checking the input, and then start using shore again. I bet you'll see it change back to shore power if you leave the vacum runing.

and put a meter to measure the AC voltage and the freq of the honda while doing this.

your vicrton is showing the honda is going over 130v AC when the vacum surges (i would have guessed it to drop not gain). there is probably settings for the range of the victron input

the heater is a resistive load and will not have any surging


the inverter seems to be running fine at 15a and below which is the rating of the gen.
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