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Old 30-04-2017, 20:06   #1
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Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

We have a Vetus M3.10 in our Mirage 26/27. It has a key to turn it on, and a push button start. On the panel with the push button start, there is also a STOP push button and a glow plug.
The first outing and the push button STOP has broken.
We have no idea how to fix it.
There are 4 wires on what is left of the STOP button: 2 black, 1 red and 1 white.
We have a new push button to install but that's as far as we've gotten.
There is nothing in the manual and nothing online that I can find or understand. Can anyone send me a pic of THEIR Vetus stop on the back so I can show it to our boat mechanic or possibly DIY? Thanks in advance!
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Old 30-04-2017, 20:21   #2
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Wiring diagram pg 146-150
http://www.vetusweb.com/manuals/file...03%2009-99.pdf

Len
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Old 30-04-2017, 20:31   #3
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Thank, Len. The manual you sent me doesn't show the panel we have, so it's not of any help.
We do not turn the motor off with the key. The only way to turn it off, is with the OFF push button on the picture I posed with this request.

Our manual has the panel we have pictured, but no information on how it's wired or even how the push button switch works.

I don't understand how this push button turns the engine off. Does it stop the fuel ? Does it do something electrically? Who knows!?

Any other suggestions or ideas?

Thx
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Old 30-04-2017, 23:11   #4
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

the usual means by which such 'button" kill switches is that they supply 12 v to a solenoid on the engine, mounted near the injection pump. When activated, the solenoid pulls on a linkaage which in turn moves a lever on teh pump, and that stops the fuel flow. You can manually push the lever to stop the engine at any time, say like when your push button failed.

But that only accounts for two of the four wires. You'd have to inspect the wiring diagram to see what the other two do.

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Old 01-05-2017, 07:26   #5
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Hi Jim
That info is VERY helpful! Thanks for giving me the basics on how the switch works! Now, to find that wiring diagram.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:06   #6
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

also you should have a manual stop button on the engine, it's a black plastic round cap about 1" in diameter - my M3.09 has it just behind the fuel pump and above the water pump - pressing that will stop it (my older M2.05 has it right in the front which was much more accesible)

edit: looked at Len's doc and it appears to be just above the oil filter (#12 on page 4)
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:29   #7
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Some diesels have a cable attached to the linkage that stops the fuel flow. Pulling the cable stops the engine. Its a good, non-electrical, low tech solution.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:09   #8
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

On the aft side of the injector pump on the starboard side of the engine is a "gizmo" about 1" in diameter and 1 1/2" long. As someone said, it has a rubber cap on the aft end of it. The cap is black alright, but has probably been painted over, as "professional" mechanics are apt to do, and it is not, therefore, easy to see, particularly since you'd have to be a contortionist to get your eyeball far enuff into the engine compartment. So feel for it till you find it the soft bit. You gotta press the soft bit forward to activate it.

That gizmo is a solenoid that when activated shuts off the fuel flow to the injector pump. The Vetus wiring is IMO absolute garbage. I hard-wired my solenoid "around" the panel by simply activating it from a good sturdy Perkings brand "momentary on" switch mounted on the side of the engine casing where it was easy to see and to get to. Same with my "start" and "preheat" buttons.

Vetus has a nasty habit of giving priority to "pretty" over "functional" :-)!

TP
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Old 01-05-2017, 15:56   #9
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Hello Water Music.

Sorry to hear you're having a problem with one of our engines. Please contact me direct and I will put you in touch with an engine guru in our service department in Holland. I will stay involved until your problem is solved and you're completely satisfied.

All the best
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group
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Old 01-05-2017, 16:06   #10
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
On the aft side of the injector pump on the starboard side of the engine is a "gizmo" about 1" in diameter and 1 1/2" long. As someone said, it has a rubber cap on the aft end of it. The cap is black alright, but has probably been painted over, as "professional" mechanics are apt to do, and it is not, therefore, easy to see, particularly since you'd have to be a contortionist to get your eyeball far enuff into the engine compartment. So feel for it till you find it the soft bit. You gotta press the soft bit forward to activate it.

That gizmo is a solenoid that when activated shuts off the fuel flow to the injector pump. The Vetus wiring is IMO absolute garbage. I hard-wired my solenoid "around" the panel by simply activating it from a good sturdy Perkings brand "momentary on" switch mounted on the side of the engine casing where it was easy to see and to get to. Same with my "start" and "preheat" buttons.

Vetus has a nasty habit of giving priority to "pretty" over "functional" :-)!

TP
As an American who has worked for Vetus for 19 years, I'm amazed at your last sentence. Vetus is a Dutch company. THe Dutch, at least the ones I know, have no concept of pretty. As an example, I would cite the old Alexander III windlass, the ugliest piece of totally reliable equipment ever to the bolted to the deck of a boat. The darn things lasted forever.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:03   #11
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

HI Water Music

I have exactly the same setup in our yacht, a stadt 34. And our push button stop is also inconsistent. It is still in one piece, but quite sporadic. This seems to be how the wring works:
  • Two wires connect to the shut off solenoid. As mentioned by others, the solenoid is on the SB side of the motor. You can push it in manually to stop the engine. The push button sends voltage to the solenoid (it has two wires) and this engages the solenoid, which then shuts off the fuel.
  • The other wires disengage the alarm signal.
I was thinking about a solution this morning. I am planning on building my own panel, using standard push button switches. I will probably remount inside the yacht.

I still need to check the connections on the current switch. It might be an easy fix, although I suspect the shut off switch needs to be replaced. It will probably be difficult to find a direct replacement, so I will look around for a switch that has four terminals.

I can take some photos of the current installation this weekend and post them for you. I will then keep this post updated on my overall solution.

I think the panel is fairly robust, but now of an age where the switches will start to fail, particularly if mounted externally.

Cheers
Melvin
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:52   #12
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

the quickest fix is to tie a piece of cord to the shut off leaver on the fuel pump. It's spring loaded so when you pull it the fuel is shut off. Once the engine has stopped release the cord and it springs back into the run position until the next time you need to stop. I had to do this with my beta a couple of years ago. To far away to get a new stop solenoid. rigged the cord and still have it installed. The bonus was that once the electricity gremlin found out that it wasn't needed the solenoid started working again and is till doing it's job!
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Old 06-11-2017, 23:54   #13
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Re: Vetus 18hp with broken shut off - need help pls

Hi Guys

Just to let you know that I was able to replace the 4 pole push button switch and get it working correctly. This is for the combined STOP switch and ALARM OFF switch. It took some figuring out, but eventually quite simple.

The solution is a combined switch with the following functions:
  • Normally Off - temporarily on (when pushing)
  • Normally On - temporarily Off (when pushing)
  • Mine comes with an integrated led, which I'm not bothered about wiring up
The engine off solenoid wires are connected to the normally off poles. The alarm off wires are connected to the normally on poles. Just play around until you get the wired right. Do the solenoid first, and then the alarm (or vice verse). The 19mm switch required a bit of filing to increase the hole size, but it only took a few minutes.

Push button swith is IP65, brushed metal stainless. You should be able pick them up at any good electronics store.

I started off by separating the solenoid and alarm off and wiring to different switches. I used the old switch for the alarm (that side was still OK). I wired up the solenoid to a new push button switch (normally off). This worked well, I just had the push button inside. Found the correct switch last week and took me about 10 minutes to reconnect it all. What a pleasure. Will take a photo this weekend...
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