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23-07-2018, 09:32
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#31
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Soldering well is a rare skill, not easy to acquire for most.
A proper crimp gains nothing by adding solder afterwards.
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23-07-2018, 10:08
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Boat: Tayana 48DS 48'
Posts: 326
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Its interesting to see that no one has yet identified that there are two kinds of insulation used on welding cable - EPDM and Hypalon (AKA CSPE). EPDM is a problem as it is attacked by oil & solvents, and it does age poorly, especially in high-heat environments. Hypalon and it's equivalents do not suffer this problem.
You can successfully use welding wire IF:
1. You keep salt water (including vapor) out of the untinned portions of the wiring - do this by crimping, soldering, then jacketing (adhesive-lined heatshrink is best, IMHO).
2. Make sure the jacket is in good condition, not exposed to sunlight or very high heat (like an exhaust manifold).
I've used it successfully on two vessels over 25+ years now - but I was VERY careful how the lugs were put on & sealed.
Hartley
S/V Atsa
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23-07-2018, 10:09
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,787
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Applicability and regulations apart, unlike the PO, if one needs to buy, what are the savings? 2/0 tinned cable is about $5.50/foot for 100 feet.
On a quick search, I did not find good quality 2/0 welding cables economically justifiable.
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23-07-2018, 10:30
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
It can probably be made to work well. Just consider the 500A rating is at a welder duty cycle not continuous current.
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23-07-2018, 10:34
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Boat: Tayana 48DS 48'
Posts: 326
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia
Applicability and regulations apart, unlike the PO, if one needs to buy, what are the savings? 2/0 tinned cable is about $5.50/foot for 100 feet.
On a quick search, I did not find good quality 2/0 welding cables economically justifiable.
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Two possible reasons:
1. Welding cable is more flexible than "marine" cable, so easier to install.
2. Welding cable is often available in short lengths at a substantial discount - these "ends" are what's left on the spool at the welding supply house. Most boaters don't need long lengths.
Hartley
S/V Atsa
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23-07-2018, 10:39
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oriental, NC
Boat: Baba 40
Posts: 501
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Just do it. If it doesn’t work out (short of exploding), THEN you can break out the big bucks.
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23-07-2018, 12:36
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Rappahanock River, Va
Boat: Caliber 47
Posts: 186
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Is not the size imprinted on the insulation.....most likely 2/0.
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23-07-2018, 13:15
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 1,006
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
NO way!
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Re parallel conductors, I have seen this frequently done for electric windlass installations.
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23-07-2018, 13:25
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: MD DC area/Annapolis/Baltimore
Boat: 1985 Catalina 27
Posts: 330
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw
I personally prefer welding cable. It nice and flexible and easy to run. Just make sure you figure out the gauge (of mm) to ensure you are using adequate cable for the job.
I don't bother with tinning. I make a good crimped connection, followed by covering in silicon in the joint, then finally I apply adhesive lined heat shrink (once silicon kicks).
I have seen that cable drug through mud, muck, snow, chemical filled puddles, hit with grinding sparks, driven over, caught in track hoes... and still come away with zero damage. Last summer the company I was working for had me build some extension cables (yes seriously) out of disgarded 15 year old welding cable. The copper was still shiny and looked just like brand new.
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that makes sense.... just keep the copper wiring well insulated and the connections waterproof.
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23-07-2018, 13:27
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Martinique
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 2,298
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsky49
Re parallel conductors, I have seen this frequently done for electric windlass installations.
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Sigh... Yup our boat actually left the factory with parallel conductors on both the positive and negative sides (from the batteries to the buss bars). Its crazy what people claim to "know".
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23-07-2018, 15:16
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,864
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet
Welding cable has a sheath designed to resist being melted or set on fire by red hot metal. Some cables achieved this by using a high natural rubber content which will break down over the years. Good stuff uses a synthetic rubber that will last forever. You'd have 50mm2 cable at a minimum, possibly even 70mm2, so corrosion won't slow it down too much in regards to boat supply current carrying capacity. Just make sure it's clean enough for solder to take to it easily. The usual method of applying a crimp lug (or even hammered down copper water pipe) is to crimp first, then solder the crimped connection. Because the insulation doesn't melt so easy, this technique works fine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartleyg
Its interesting to see that no one has yet identified that there are two kinds of insulation used on welding cable - EPDM and Hypalon (AKA CSPE). EPDM is a problem as it is attacked by oil & solvents, and it does age poorly, especially in high-heat environments. Hypalon and it's equivalents do not suffer this problem.
You can successfully use welding wire IF:
1. You keep salt water (including vapor) out of the untinned portions of the wiring - do this by crimping, soldering, then jacketing (adhesive-lined heatshrink is best, IMHO).
2. Make sure the jacket is in good condition, not exposed to sunlight or very high heat (like an exhaust manifold).
I've used it successfully on two vessels over 25+ years now - but I was VERY careful how the lugs were put on & sealed.
Hartley
S/V Atsa
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For the sake of being pedantic. I did note that there were two different types of insulation in an earlier post.
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23-07-2018, 18:01
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 361
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw
Sigh... Yup our boat actually left the factory with parallel conductors on both the positive and negative sides (from the batteries to the buss bars). Its crazy what people claim to "know".
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This is not what is proposed. Talking about two positive cables going to the device.
(a) One cable will have less resistance, it will carry the larger share of the load.
(b) If there is a problem with one cable, what fuse do you have to prevent the insulation from melting on the other.
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23-07-2018, 18:58
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#43
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Although it is not ideal when alternatives exist,
it is very commonly done IRL
and certainly not a problem for temporary field repairs.
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23-07-2018, 20:19
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#44
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallythacker
Another question came to mind.
If the current for a particular run is going to be almost twice what the cable can carry is it OK to run another cable in parallel and crimp/solder them together to form a two conductor bundle?
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NO!
According to ABYC two conductors can be run in parallel as required to meet voltage drop requirements but either cable has to have sufficient ampacity for intended load on its own.
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23-07-2018, 20:38
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Roberts 45
Posts: 1,033
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet
For the sake of being pedantic. I did note that there were two different types of insulation in an earlier post.
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You did mention it. The other gentleman must've missed it.
As for running two cables, you can do it, just make sure each one is fused to its capacity. Having one of them possibly carry a slightly higher current than the other doesn't matter at all.
Yet as John said, it's not ideal.
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