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Old 23-07-2018, 09:32   #31
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Soldering well is a rare skill, not easy to acquire for most.

A proper crimp gains nothing by adding solder afterwards.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:08   #32
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Its interesting to see that no one has yet identified that there are two kinds of insulation used on welding cable - EPDM and Hypalon (AKA CSPE). EPDM is a problem as it is attacked by oil & solvents, and it does age poorly, especially in high-heat environments. Hypalon and it's equivalents do not suffer this problem.
You can successfully use welding wire IF:
1. You keep salt water (including vapor) out of the untinned portions of the wiring - do this by crimping, soldering, then jacketing (adhesive-lined heatshrink is best, IMHO).
2. Make sure the jacket is in good condition, not exposed to sunlight or very high heat (like an exhaust manifold).


I've used it successfully on two vessels over 25+ years now - but I was VERY careful how the lugs were put on & sealed.


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Old 23-07-2018, 10:09   #33
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Applicability and regulations apart, unlike the PO, if one needs to buy, what are the savings? 2/0 tinned cable is about $5.50/foot for 100 feet.
On a quick search, I did not find good quality 2/0 welding cables economically justifiable.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:30   #34
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

It can probably be made to work well. Just consider the 500A rating is at a welder duty cycle not continuous current.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:34   #35
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Applicability and regulations apart, unlike the PO, if one needs to buy, what are the savings? 2/0 tinned cable is about $5.50/foot for 100 feet.
On a quick search, I did not find good quality 2/0 welding cables economically justifiable.

Two possible reasons:


1. Welding cable is more flexible than "marine" cable, so easier to install.


2. Welding cable is often available in short lengths at a substantial discount - these "ends" are what's left on the spool at the welding supply house. Most boaters don't need long lengths.


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Old 23-07-2018, 10:39   #36
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Just do it. If it doesn’t work out (short of exploding), THEN you can break out the big bucks.
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Old 23-07-2018, 12:36   #37
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Is not the size imprinted on the insulation.....most likely 2/0.
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Old 23-07-2018, 13:15   #38
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
NO way!

Re parallel conductors, I have seen this frequently done for electric windlass installations.
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Old 23-07-2018, 13:25   #39
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
I personally prefer welding cable. It nice and flexible and easy to run. Just make sure you figure out the gauge (of mm) to ensure you are using adequate cable for the job.

I don't bother with tinning. I make a good crimped connection, followed by covering in silicon in the joint, then finally I apply adhesive lined heat shrink (once silicon kicks).

I have seen that cable drug through mud, muck, snow, chemical filled puddles, hit with grinding sparks, driven over, caught in track hoes... and still come away with zero damage. Last summer the company I was working for had me build some extension cables (yes seriously) out of disgarded 15 year old welding cable. The copper was still shiny and looked just like brand new.
that makes sense.... just keep the copper wiring well insulated and the connections waterproof.
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Old 23-07-2018, 13:27   #40
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

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Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
Re parallel conductors, I have seen this frequently done for electric windlass installations.
Sigh... Yup our boat actually left the factory with parallel conductors on both the positive and negative sides (from the batteries to the buss bars). Its crazy what people claim to "know".
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Old 23-07-2018, 15:16   #41
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Welding cable has a sheath designed to resist being melted or set on fire by red hot metal. Some cables achieved this by using a high natural rubber content which will break down over the years. Good stuff uses a synthetic rubber that will last forever. You'd have 50mm2 cable at a minimum, possibly even 70mm2, so corrosion won't slow it down too much in regards to boat supply current carrying capacity. Just make sure it's clean enough for solder to take to it easily. The usual method of applying a crimp lug (or even hammered down copper water pipe) is to crimp first, then solder the crimped connection. Because the insulation doesn't melt so easy, this technique works fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartleyg View Post
Its interesting to see that no one has yet identified that there are two kinds of insulation used on welding cable - EPDM and Hypalon (AKA CSPE). EPDM is a problem as it is attacked by oil & solvents, and it does age poorly, especially in high-heat environments. Hypalon and it's equivalents do not suffer this problem.
You can successfully use welding wire IF:
1. You keep salt water (including vapor) out of the untinned portions of the wiring - do this by crimping, soldering, then jacketing (adhesive-lined heatshrink is best, IMHO).
2. Make sure the jacket is in good condition, not exposed to sunlight or very high heat (like an exhaust manifold).


I've used it successfully on two vessels over 25+ years now - but I was VERY careful how the lugs were put on & sealed.


Hartley
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For the sake of being pedantic. I did note that there were two different types of insulation in an earlier post.
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Old 23-07-2018, 18:01   #42
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Sigh... Yup our boat actually left the factory with parallel conductors on both the positive and negative sides (from the batteries to the buss bars). Its crazy what people claim to "know".

This is not what is proposed. Talking about two positive cables going to the device.

(a) One cable will have less resistance, it will carry the larger share of the load.

(b) If there is a problem with one cable, what fuse do you have to prevent the insulation from melting on the other.
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Old 23-07-2018, 18:58   #43
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Although it is not ideal when alternatives exist,

it is very commonly done IRL

and certainly not a problem for temporary field repairs.
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Old 23-07-2018, 20:19   #44
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallythacker View Post
Another question came to mind.

If the current for a particular run is going to be almost twice what the cable can carry is it OK to run another cable in parallel and crimp/solder them together to form a two conductor bundle?
NO!

According to ABYC two conductors can be run in parallel as required to meet voltage drop requirements but either cable has to have sufficient ampacity for intended load on its own.
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Old 23-07-2018, 20:38   #45
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Re: Using arc welder wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
For the sake of being pedantic. I did note that there were two different types of insulation in an earlier post.

You did mention it. The other gentleman must've missed it.


As for running two cables, you can do it, just make sure each one is fused to its capacity. Having one of them possibly carry a slightly higher current than the other doesn't matter at all.
Yet as John said, it's not ideal.
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