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22-07-2018, 19:01
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallythacker
Another question came to mind.
If the current for a particular run is going to be almost twice what the cable can carry is it OK to run another cable in parallel and crimp/solder them together to form a two conductor bundle?
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NO way!
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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22-07-2018, 19:20
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Niagara Falls
Boat: Oops -jumped the gun
Posts: 62
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
NO way!
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So doing that plants one firmly into PO STATUS?
__________________
What have I done?
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22-07-2018, 19:24
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,864
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
Welding companies can do whatever they're allowed. On boats we have other regulations and considerations because of vibration and the safety of lives at sea.
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Actually they cant. They have to manufacture to standards as well. Welding machine open circuit voltage can be high enough to kill in certain environments. Also, if you think a welding cable has a sissy life, think of applications on wharves, sky scrapers, oil rigs, cross country pipe lines, steel storage tanks, ship repairs and building, etcetera, etcetera.
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22-07-2018, 19:34
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: SAnta Cruz 27
Posts: 6,683
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Having replaced a failed welding cable on a boat, I would never recommend it. The fine strands turned to fairy dust over time, and it wouldn't conduct enough amps to run a windlass. I kept cutting back the end of the cable to find a good section, and gave up after 8 feet.
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22-07-2018, 19:36
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Niagara Falls
Boat: Oops -jumped the gun
Posts: 62
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Here's a great link to description of welding cables in general and alternative cables that substitute for them. I found it a good read.
https://www.anixter.com/en_ca/resour...ing-cable.html
__________________
What have I done?
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22-07-2018, 21:04
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#21
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Gulfstar Long Range Trawler; 53'; BearBoat
Posts: 1,524
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Tha ABYC Standards are used by surveyors to inspect a recreational vessel. The insurance companies use the vessel's survey report to determine if they will write an insurance policy for coverage of that vessel.
For DC systems, ABYC Standard E-11 specifically requires that insulated conductors and cables conform to the requirements of UL1426 or SAE J378 and SAE J1127 or SAE J1128.
Welding cable does not conform to these requirements.
BTW, there is no ABYC requirement to use tinned conductors or cables on recreational vessels.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
ABYC Master Technician
JTB Marine Corporation
"The Devil is in the details and so is salvation."
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22-07-2018, 21:40
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ
Tha ABYC Standards are used by surveyors to inspect a recreational vessel. The insurance companies use the vessel's survey report to determine if they will write an insurance policy for coverage of that vessel.
For DC systems, ABYC Standard E-11 specifically requires that insulated conductors and cables conform to the requirements of UL1426 or SAE J378 and SAE J1127 or SAE J1128.
Welding cable does not conform to these requirements.
BTW, there is no ABYC requirement to use tinned conductors or cables on recreational vessels.
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This isn't dated so...
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22-07-2018, 23:46
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 4,634
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
most wire is not gas or diesel proof. a spill / leak with eat though the insolation. I've seen unfused 2/0 welding cables, pos and neg, side by side with 1' of insulation missing on both cables. he's so lucky they never touched.
one of many reasons to use marine cable.
I'm pretty sure ABYC says you can't use welding cable.
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23-07-2018, 05:06
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#24
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Boat: Gulfstar Long Range Trawler; 53'; BearBoat
Posts: 1,524
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Post #22
Good to know but...the ABYC requirement also requires SAE J378 for the cable to be conforming. I did not include in my original post the very specific labeling required on the wiring and cabling.
To the OP: I recommend that you sell the windfall welding conductors for scrap and then use the $ to buy UL 1426 BC5W2 Boat Cable. An internet source with a good reputation is Genuine Deals (no connection between them and me) ; Marine Battery Cable, Tinned Marine Grade Battery Cables : AWG Gauge Size Genuinedealz.com
__________________
Charlie Johnson
ABYC Master Technician
JTB Marine Corporation
"The Devil is in the details and so is salvation."
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23-07-2018, 08:26
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 361
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
quoting a link from post above.
"Welding cable’s flexibility and durability makes it attractive to use in non-welding applications. However, most welding cable is not Listed by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) like UL, meaning it does not meet NEC requirements for fixed wiring. Even UL Listed welding cable that meets UL 1276 Welding Cables is not approved for use as fixed wiring or general use portable cord unless it carries an additional Listing.3 Authorities having jurisdiction (AHJ) can approve the use of welding cable in applications where the installation is judged to be safe, but using welding cable as fixed wiring without discussion with the AHJ can lead to problems."
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23-07-2018, 08:44
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#27
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
UL 1426 is the spec to look for.
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23-07-2018, 08:45
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 2,647
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallythacker
Another question came to mind.
If the current for a particular run is going to be almost twice what the cable can carry is it OK to run another cable in parallel and crimp/solder them together to form a two conductor bundle?
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Bundled wires behave differently. Crimp pressure changes characteristics depending on the insulation. To long of parallel runs can induce currents
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
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23-07-2018, 09:10
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East of the river CT
Boat: Oday Mariner 19 , Four Winns Marquis 16 OB, Kingfisher III
Posts: 657
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
NO way!
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Technically ABYC allows you to parallel two conductors as long as both are over 8AWG and meet the ampacity requirement individually. In other works you can use them to lower voltage drop.
__________________
mysite: Colinism.com
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23-07-2018, 09:12
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: East of the river CT
Boat: Oday Mariner 19 , Four Winns Marquis 16 OB, Kingfisher III
Posts: 657
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Re: Using arc welder wiring
Also as I recall on soldering it has been submitted to ABYC as clarification by another forum member asking if solder could be added after a crimp, and I believe it was confirmed that was OK.
__________________
mysite: Colinism.com
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