Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-03-2016, 10:57   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 806
Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Recently, I had used up all of my wire butt connectors which I had on board. So I made a quick trip to West Marine (via local bus so I was in a hurry to catch the return bus), and grabbed a box of non-adhesive lined 14-16 g. Ancor butt connectors.

Back at the boat, I noticed that the box said single crimp. Looking more closely I noticed that the connectors were not the double-crimp type and were not appropriate for my ratcheting double crimping tool.

Returning to West Marine the following day, I discovered that WM no longer regularly carries the preferred step-down double crimp terminals in butt connectors, though all (apparently) of the ring terminals are still the double crimp style. Confusing at best, risky at worst.

In the pic below, the bottom butt connector is a single crimp type, all the others are double crimp type.

If using the single crimp type be cautious that you have the correct tool, and be careful not to pierce the insulator when crimping.

My preference is the double-crimp type, where I am certain that the wire will never pull out of the terminal under normal conditions (as well as some very abnormal ones).

Be aware.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	066.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	409.2 KB
ID:	121406  
__________________

__________________
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 11:34   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Grand Banks 49
Posts: 449
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
Recently, I had used up all of my wire butt connectors which I had on board. So I made a quick trip to West Marine (via local bus so I was in a hurry to catch the return bus), and grabbed a box of non-adhesive lined 14-16 g. Ancor butt connectors.

Back at the boat, I noticed that the box said single crimp. Looking more closely I noticed that the connectors were not the double-crimp type and were not appropriate for my ratcheting double crimping tool.

Returning to West Marine the following day, I discovered that WM no longer regularly carries the preferred step-down double crimp terminals in butt connectors, though all (apparently) of the ring terminals are still the double crimp style. Confusing at best, risky at worst.

In the pic below, the bottom butt connector is a single crimp type, all the others are double crimp type.

If using the single crimp type be cautious that you have the correct tool, and be careful not to pierce the insulator when crimping.

My preference is the double-crimp type, where I am certain that the wire will never pull out of the terminal under normal conditions (as well as some very abnormal ones).

Be aware.
===

Is it the length of the metal sleeve that determines whether it is single or double?
__________________

__________________
wayne.b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 11:42   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 3,919
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

It appears that the length of the crimp tube is the main difference. I don't understand the warning about not piercing the insulator sleave shouldn't all butt connectors be installed and shrink tubed to help forstay corrosion in the butt connection.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 11:45   #4
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Not only. Double-insulated terminals usually have an enlarged end into which the wire AND its insulation are fitted, so that the crimp is both on the wire's conductor itself and on the wire's insulation.

The proper crimper to use with single-crimp, insulated terminals is one like the Ancor 702010 which these days goes for about $68 street price.

Click image for larger version

Name:	WireCrimper.jpg
Views:	218
Size:	187.7 KB
ID:	121407

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 12:13   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 806
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

The metal tube portion of the connector is of course longer, but it is also enlarged at the end to be able to insert the wire insulation, allowing a much firmer grasp of the wire.

In the double crimp connector, shown second from the bottom, you can see the enlarged ends. This particular brand I obtain from Fastenall, a nation-wide contractor's source for fasteners and adhesives. More difficult to see is that the interior of the metal sleeve (tinned copper in this case) is also ribbed to help maintain friction/grip with the wire. Ancor doesn't do this, at least with the current single crimp connectors. There is also a small internal stop at the midpoint of the terminal which helps with establishing equal lengths of inserted wire.

With many basic crimpers, the point of the tool actually cuts through the insulation. This is not helpful, regardless whether you use heat shrink tubing.

Much of my concern is that there is a strong possibility of using the wrong installation tool if you are unable to easily discern a double-crimp terminal from a single-crimp terminal.
__________________
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 09:29   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

I have been using crimp terminals and the cheapest of crimpers for nearly fifty years (it was part of my job) and never pierced the insulation with the tool. Never. Also, while it's great to also crimp the insulation, if your wires are properly installed and supported, there should be no strain on the connections so it's not really necessary.


I think you may be worrying about nothing.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 11:34   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enkhuizen, NL
Boat: Pearson 36-1
Posts: 330
Send a message via Skype™ to George DuBose
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

PacerMarine.net has a full range of wire, cable, all sorts of connectors that make waterproof connections.

I always use a ratcheting crimper that makes a double crimp and won't release its grip until it is fully squeezed.

I used to use Ancor products until I was replacing all the wiring on Skylark. Wanting to buy wire, cable and connectors in bulk let me to find Pacer. Their quality is as good as Ancor or better and the prices are much lower.
__________________
George DuBose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 11:52   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 3,919
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I have been using crimp terminals and the cheapest of crimpers for nearly fifty years (it was part of my job) and never pierced the insulation with the tool. Never. Also, while it's great to also crimp the insulation, if your wires are properly installed and supported, there should be no strain on the connections so it's not really necessary.


I think you may be worrying about nothing.
Ron I think he's afraid of not spending enough on stuff. My crimpers , crimps ( of all types) all came from harbor freight in all these years I have never had any issues on my or customers boats/cars.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 13:50   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,002
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Had nothing but problems using a ratchet crimping tool. Was never certain it made a secure crimp unless I yanked on either end and a lot of the time the wires came apart. Bought a quality plier type crimper and have never had a problem with it. Probably my technique but was not able to figure out how to get a secure crimp with the ratchet tool. Worse part it was a pain to use when doing boat Yoga.

Looks like the single crimp part is designed to have the wires side by side in the sleeve when crimped. Doesn't look like it's any larger in diameter than the regular butted double crimp part though.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 14:48   #10
Sponsoring Vendor
 
HopCar's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,153
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

I always use single crimp connectors that come with heat shrink and are adhesive lined.
My theory is the adhesive grabs the insulation and provides strain relief like a double crimp does.

I know my next statement will set off a storm of comments such as "are you out of your mind?"

I use a crimper designed for uninsulated connectors. Yes it pierces the insulation, but I always get a good crimp. I've never had a corrosion problem. When I shrink the insulation, the adhesive melts and flows into the puncture and seals it.

I also dislike butt connectors. I use them some times but I prefer to join two wires with a terminal strip and ring connectors. I never use butt connectors to join bilge pump wires because I know I'll have to cut the wire sometime in the future.
__________________
Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies & Fishing Tackle
What You Need, at the Price You Want...with Service!
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 15:39   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida Keys
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 86
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

It is so refreshing to see good advice that doesn't center around "if it's not expensive, it shouldn't go on a boat". Lot's of electrical advice is valid on non-watertight vessels, but on a dry boat, well, you can get away with a lot!

I bought a used 30' which has been (gasp!) rewired almost entirely in lamp (zip) cord (the low-amperage circuits). As time permits, I'm slowly replacing it all with good tinned wire. But no corrosion has caused a problem, nor have I been electrocuted. Now, I'd never recommend zip cord, but then, I'd never say 'never', especially in an emergency.
__________________
Skuzzlebutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 15:57   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wherever the wind takes me
Boat: Bristol 41.1
Posts: 806
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I always use single crimp connectors that come with heat shrink and are adhesive lined.
My theory is the adhesive grabs the insulation and provides strain relief like a double crimp does.

I know my next statement will set off a storm of comments such as "are you out of your mind?"

I use a crimper designed for uninsulated connectors. Yes it pierces the insulation, but I always get a good crimp. I've never had a corrosion problem. When I shrink the insulation, the adhesive melts and flows into the puncture and seals it.

I also dislike butt connectors. I use them some times but I prefer to join two wires with a terminal strip and ring connectors. I never use butt connectors to join bilge pump wires because I know I'll have to cut the wire sometime in the future.


As a rule, all wiring should be continuous, without splices, butt connectors, etc. In the real world, occasionally they (butt connectors) are necessary, such as in bilge pumps/float switches, where the factory wiring must be added to. In these applications, I will also use heat shrink tubing for an added sense of protection. Still, I hold these connections as high up as my boat will permit. With a bilge sump depth that measures 33" below the cabin sole (I just measured), that means that some wires may be mounted and/or connected lower than I would prefer.

My original intent was to alert others that their ratcheting double crimper may not function as intended with the majority of the Ancor (and other brands) typical butt connector, as they appear to be standardizing on single crimp connectors, with shorter inner metal crimping tubes.

I agree about Pacer. Genuinedealz is also a good source for electrical parts.
__________________
redsky49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 16:23   #13
Registered User
 
captainwireman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rio Dulce
Boat: Dean Oceancomber 10M
Posts: 125
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Ron I think he's afraid of not spending enough on stuff. My crimpers , crimps ( of all types) all came from harbor freight in all these years I have never had any issues on my or customers boats/cars.
How do you explain the fact that the Army Corps of Engineers not only specifies the type of crimper but the calibration of said crimper for use in missile silo control wiring?

There is a difference BUT I also feel knowledge of a properly crimped connection and adequate waterproofing would be more than sufficient. If you don't know, maybe not all that huge of an investment.

I always leave a 10 inch or so loop in any connection so if it tests out bad at any point, there is plenty spare wire to make a new, clean connection. Make any splice in a convienient location and DO keep a record of all connection points, hopefully there will never be a splice but now if a problem comes up, you don't need to start being a detective and anyone else on board can figure it out immediately. Many great methods to waterproof but I prefer a small length of self vulcanizing tape with a hot glue gun melt over it. Bulletproof and strong.
__________________
All that wander are not lost.
captainwireman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 18:14   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwireman View Post
How do you explain the fact that the Army Corps of Engineers not only specifies the type of crimper but the calibration of said crimper for use in missile silo control wiring?
..............
I don't think that's relevant to this discussion.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 19:02   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 3,919
Re: Use Caution with Ancor Terminals

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwireman View Post
How do you explain the fact that the Army Corps of Engineers not only specifies the type of crimper but the calibration of said crimper for use in missile silo control wiring?
.
Personally I would explain it as the generally known anal retentave nature of the army corps of engineers. But it has nothing to do with this thread or sailing in general.
__________________

__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sea Sickness Drugs ( Stugerone / Stunarone / Cinnarizine ) ... Use Caution Cruising Couple General Sailing Forum 41 08-02-2013 00:01
Ancor vs 3M Terminals steve77 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 05-08-2009 13:53
Discount Source for Ancor Terminals? steve77 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 13 02-08-2009 12:11
ANCOR MARINE Crimping Tool 0n sale ronsunni Marine Electronics 0 25-08-2008 15:44



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.