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Old 20-07-2014, 09:51   #46
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Re: Understanding 220v

Im a bit confused about this. We have a Lagoon400 cat, 220V and will be in the Caribbean later this year. Do most marinas supply 220V as an option? Do they take standard EU power cords or supply adapters? We have an inverter for all our appliances and could probably live off the solar anyway, the only benefit of shorepower would be heating the water heater. And transformers?
Thanks
Monte
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Old 20-07-2014, 14:58   #47
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Re: Understanding 220v

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Originally Posted by Phoenix37 View Post
Thank you Dan..Cant seem to find info on the windings. Here is a link to the manual.

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...L-FR-DE-ES.pdf



I don't intend to do this myself. I can fix most things on the boat but high voltage is not something I want to play with. Anyone know a good electrician in Ft Lauderdale?

It looks straightforward. Connect 220V to input L and N. Connect input PE to shore ground (not neutral). There is no place to connect shore neutral but that's ok. Just insulate the neutral wire and put a note on it explaining it is not used with an isolation transformer. Do not install the PE jumper! Make sure the RCD on the transformer secondary is working and you should be ok.
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Old 20-07-2014, 17:43   #48
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Re: Understanding 220v

My Lagoon cat is 230v. The solar panels don't keep the batteries charged enough on long passages so I bought a Honda 2000 in Panama but could only get a 115v job. I plug it into the shore power inlet and it charges away and everything works. I haven't tried the water heater because I assumed it wouldn't get hot enough but I notice someone here said it does but slower. Obviously I couldn't run 230v appliances from the power points. That was until I came across a 2000w 2 to 1 transformer in Tahiti. Now I can step up or down depending on what I'm putting into the shore power inlet.
Monte...I stayed in the Oyster Pond marina at St. Martin and both 230 and 115 was available but I needed to change the plug. The marina had one that they lent me but you can buy then at Budget Marine for example.
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Old 20-07-2014, 20:21   #49
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Re: Understanding 220v

You are lucky to be in Ft L
Call Wards Marine Electric
They are some of the best and will be very familiar with your needs

Scott


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Old 26-07-2014, 06:34   #50
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Re: Understanding 220v

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Originally Posted by Oliver L. View Post
Guys,

aren't we getting lost here a bit?

In Europe you have 230 VAC 50 Hz. Everywhere in the US you have 230 VAC 60 Hz available. So what's the big deal?

I am now close to US waters, and aside from my "reverse polarity" indicator lighting up when I connect to 230 Volts with two hot legs, not much is happening. In Germany, every plug is reversible, i.e. you never know where the hot or neutral leg will be, and therefore all equipment is built such that it really doesn't matter.

The thing you have to watch out for is pumps and compressors. Power input increases by 3rd power of the frequency, and therefore a 50 Hz system might become overloaded if run at 60 Hz. I got a dual frequency compressor from Webasto, and fortunately Japan is half 50 and half 60 Hz, which is why you can buy Iwaki pumps which are suitable for both frequencies.

New style (electronically commutated) pumps don't care about frequency, so you can use them anywhere.

I have yet to figure out where potential problems could lurk. NOWHERE in the whole boat do I have a piece of equipment which has a neutral-earth connection - and if so, the GFCI would trip instantly. If it doesn't, you are good to go - assuming your marina has the ground conductor connected (they usually do).

Oliver
One problem is that some vessels in Europe (And especially England) tend to only have single pole breakers on the branch circuits much like most US boats on 110V circuits.

Assuming that the vessel has a 32 amp shore power circuit breaker (common in Europe) and is double pole (as it should be). That can be the only breaker in the "Neutral" circuit.

So, if you hook Line 1 of US 240V split phase (single phase) power to hot, and hook line 2 of US 240V split phase (single phase) to neutral you do in fact get 240V sinewave power.

However, let's take a 5A branch circuit which is wired with an ampacity of let's say 10A. If the "Neutral" (which has been connected to Line 2) was to be shorted to ground the first circuit breaker to protect the wire would be the 32A double pole circuit breaker for shore power coming on the boat. The wire would then potentially get hot and start a fire.

An additional risk is that someone turns off the circuit breaker for let's say the hot water heater and then wants to work on it. The "Neutral" is still hot at this point and the first circuit breaker is the 32A shore power circuit breaker.

Now, I will definitely agree that I would NEVER work on the AC system of a boat with shore power connected. There are just too many potential problems and it is just prudent.

On the other hand, European and English vessels have had Whole Boat 30ma Ground Fault Interuption as a default for some time. That is a double pole device and so a "Neutral" which is really Line 2 which shorted to ground would trip the Ground Fault.

In the case of a boat with single pole breakers, an Isolation Transformer gets everything back to something sensible as Neutral gets bonded to ships ground (or in the case of a floating ground system is completely isolated from ground).

That said, many people do just hook it up...

One other observation, about half of the US pedistals which provide "240v Power" are actually two lines out of a three phase circuit providing 208V between the two phases. The voltage between neutral and either line is 120V, the voltage between the two lines is 208V.

I find it is better to use a step up isolation transformer which takes in 120V and creates 240V power so the voltage is always right.

I use the Victron automatic input adjusting 3600 watt transformer. If I provide the input 120V it outputs 240V, If I input 208V it outputs 208V, If I input 230V it outputs 230V, and if I input 240V I get 240V.

It happens it can be programmed to output voltages near 110V automatically also but not as useful a feature for you.
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Old 26-07-2014, 07:38   #51
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Re: Understanding 220v

I have a question about going the other way - connecting a110 v system to a European 250v shore power. I currently have a 50a 125/250v shore power cable which has two hotwires and a ground, the neutral is not connected as I only have three wires, not four. I believe this gives me two legs of 110v into my boat. My boat wiring diagram shows a green wire going to the galvanic isolator, a blue wire to shore power -, and a black wire to shore power +.

I presume the green wire is my ground. So is there a combiner not shown on my wiring diagram that takes the two legs and gives me a single110 out to my ac panel?

To hook up to 250v shore power - true European 250 v, do I need to put a step down transformer in the system, and is there some sort of intelligent transformer that will detect what power I plug into and give me the110 out that my boat is wired for. As I am stepping down I presume the wire sizes will not be an issue. I am not worried about the 50 versus 60 cycles as I. Believe all of my equipment can handle it.

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Old 26-07-2014, 08:59   #52
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Re: Understanding 220v

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Originally Posted by neilsty View Post
I have a question about going the other way - connecting a110 v system to a European 250v shore power. I currently have a 50a 125/250v shore power cable which has two hotwires and a ground, the neutral is not connected as I only have three wires, not four. I believe this gives me two legs of 110v into my boat. My boat wiring diagram shows a green wire going to the galvanic isolator, a blue wire to shore power -, and a black wire to shore power +.

I presume the green wire is my ground. So is there a combiner not shown on my wiring diagram that takes the two legs and gives me a single110 out to my ac panel?

To hook up to 250v shore power - true European 250 v, do I need to put a step down transformer in the system, and is there some sort of intelligent transformer that will detect what power I plug into and give me the110 out that my boat is wired for. As I am stepping down I presume the wire sizes will not be an issue. I am not worried about the 50 versus 60 cycles as I. Believe all of my equipment can handle it.

Thanks
Interesting combination. Do you have any 110v equipment or sockets onboard?

The reason I ask is that to get 110V from that configuration you need the neutral wire. While it is possible to get 110V between ground and one of the hots in that configuration it would not be a good thing as the ground is a "safety ground" not a "current carrying return" resulting in all sorts of problems with significant current going into the dock ground system and potentially having significant impact on neighbor's zinc consumption and the like.

Eventually, back somewhere ashore, neutral and ground are brought together but there should only be one point where this happens, at that point ashore.

If that happens to be the configuration, then hooking it to european power would result in one set of 110v equipment seeing 0V and the other set seeing 230v because they would be reference to the ground rather than the old neutral (which would not exist in a european configuration)

Now, with a transformer it would be possible to take in 230V and create a new neutral with the centertap of the secondary or use a 1:1 isolation transformer and then an autotransformer to provide a centertap which would then be connected to the boat's neutral.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
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Old 26-07-2014, 09:34   #53
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Re: Understanding 220v

There seems to be some confusion over what we actually use on the other side of the Pond from our North American cousins.

Mainland Europe has for years been using 220v 50hz supply. All EU manufactured boats are fitted with standard EU 2 round pin 220v sockets where fitted with AC power circuits.

UK/Ireland dropped down from 240v to 220v to match the rest of Europe some years ago but we still have the 3 square pin plug (long one on top is Earth and also "opens" the socket). Not sure if UK built boats have the 3 pin socket or are fitted with EU style ones.

Marinas here in Croatia generally have a 16amp mains supply but can also provide 32amp and 64amp supplies if required.

As far as I know, having travelled around much of the planet, most of the rest of the world now uses 220v. By that I mean Africa, Asia, Australasia and some but not all of the Caribbean.

Easiest way to work between the two is to buy a suitably rated step up/down transformer. We did this while in Trinidad to run our 220v equipment on the local 110v supply. We know use the same one to run 110v equipment on EU 220v supply.

Keiron
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